Patch notes discussion 10th March - 12th April 2023

[GayCavalier]

7 hours ago, GayCavalier said:

First MT report on VR.  On a 3080 and PIMAX 8kx running OpenXR (Pimax XR), the loading screens have now gone.   The main menu is there and mostly stable.  However, any of the progress-bar type loading screens are now replaced by black screens.    The sim still loads, and loads much quicker than usual, if you wait through the blank screens.  Once in sim, there's a terrible frame lag, almost like someone turned on an incompatible motion reprojection, and with usual fps.   I tried a number of SP missions, with the same effect.  Rebooted and tried again.  Same.   Starting with bin-mt\DCS.exe --force_VR --force_OpenXR command line.      I went back into ST DCS, and now I have around 25% more fps in VR - go figure!   Either way, whatever happened with this update, the performance has improved.  I guess i'll have to wait until the next OB update to see if the visual stability in VR has improved for me.

If anyone has any thoughts, i'd appreciate it - currently difficult to work in the menus in MT mode, as the shaking is worse than the opening sequence of "First Man"

 

OK.. problem solved!

In PiTool, when you start the bin-mt\dcs.exe with force_VR and force_OpenXR arguments, it creates a new item in your PiTool>Settings>Games>Game List drop-down.   (NOTE:  as suggested by another forum member, I imported the new MT exe into "My games" in PiTool, this produced the new setting)

The original "DCS World Steam Edition" is there, but now there's another one, simply called "DCS"  within this settings page: Smart Smoothing was turned on by default, along with "vertical sync" set to 1/2, and Hidden Area Mask Enabled.   TURN ALL OF THOSE OFF!!

I restarted DCS MT, and I now have 59-60Hz at 4K native per eye, with high settings on, and good shadows etc on a very busy SuperCarrier deck within an active carrier group..  I used to get 30-40Hz before.  I am overjoyed!

The menus are still a total mess, but the in-sim VR experience is now way better than i've ever had it.   Great Job ED.. keep up the good work, i'm sure the bucket of existing issues will soon get whittled down to nothing!

Edited March 10, 2023 by GayCavalier

[Tango3B]

13 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

What it should look like is this, with the "Number of processors" unchecked. That way Windows manages the cores and all of them are used. This function is really available for those who want to limit how many cores are used.

 

True, that was how it initially looked in my settings. My performance sucked at first, though. Then, I set it to this new setting (sorry, it´s german language, but you will get it, anyway). This improved performance significantly on my end...so yeah, I don´t know why but it helped me.

 

EDIT: Full Screen on does also yield some additional FPS for me. Bizarre, but true. Try it...

Edited March 10, 2023 by Tango3B
Additional findings

[Art-J]

4 hours ago, muzica9 said:

that makes you unique. MT is not even addressed for SP free flights. Is for heavy missions with lots of units.

Nah, he might be unique in number of fps gained, but not in the fact of the gain itself. I also only did three solo cold start-> free flight missions so far, but got better performance in all of them. On average 20-35 fps increase in 2D 1440p compared to using sinlge threaded exe. Will try heavier missions later.

[Sorata]

2 hours ago, Hotdognz said:

Great update ED and congratulations on rolling out the first beta with M/T, the shadows fix is very welcome indeed along with all the other bug fixes.


DCS Shortcut used for clarity
"D:\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_enable_VR

Regarding M/T I saw no improvement, same FPS in all my test missions, HT is enabled in my BIOS, disabling it makes no difference

Instant action/Syria/F18 - Free flight
Instant action/Caucus/Apache- Ready on the range

G2 with 4090 64gb 3500 DDR4, 13700K

All my settings the same prior to the update, both missions sit at 55-60 FPS which is the same as post patch
Enabling the shadows I now lose only 1-2 FPS, but the game looks heaps better.

DCS FPS counter says im CPU bound.

 

Seeing the same for my 4090 and i9-13900ks, 64GB DDR5 at 6400mhz, free flight no gains at all. 

[Sr.]

Follow up:  I decided to bypass the OXRToolKit and remove the  --force_OpenXR option and try a few flights using only the DCS native.

Since to OXRYK counters are also no available I went simply by perception and "feel", but I think it actually runs better in native mode. However; there is a strange hitch in my right lens, kind of link a random blink/flash.. mostly at the main menu. Almost like it's trying to fake some sort of motion smoothing.

[Zebra1-1]

1 hour ago, gortex said:

My guess is that you will see the least improvement with high end components.  Your single thread cpu performance was already very good I'm guessing.

Exactly.

 

There is also a known bug in the latest Nvidia driver that has caused performance issues. It's a noticeable for me. I could roll back to the previous version, but I'm too lazy. So hopefully I'll end up with two smaller bumps in performance once the driver is fixed. I haven't seen much discussion about the driver though. Makes me wonder how many people with issues are on the latest driver (for Nvidia users). 

[Zebra1-1]

2 hours ago, muzica9 said:

I did not get 10/15 fps with my system. I only got around +5 fps in vr with rtx 4090. So yeah, i was expecting more. With MT i only got back in terms of performance what i lost with shadows update for 2.8 update. 

Are you on the latest Nvidia driver?

[NIGHTHAWK1]

MT is great.  I get 180 fps in Syria, F-18, instant missions, free flight, 2d screen.   (I9-12900k, RTX 3090, 64 mb mem)   However I only get 72fps in VR, Quest 2. I have tried all the suggestions here, I think.  Any specific help or advise for Quest.  Yes I know, I should be and am happy with 72, but could I get more?  Its amazing how good things look at 180 FPS!!

[Robbie65]

9 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

How many are affected by this?

I had to check my CPU and I have nice low number of 16.

My CPU has 32 threads and DCS MT is working fine !

[Hotdognz]

Just tried some other maps with MT after posting my initial thoughts and tried some heavey AI populated instant action missions, I now firmly believe I'm seeing no improvement in FPS in this first stage of the MT release on my rig, I can get better FPS my self by tweaking OpenXR Toolkit settings

Caucus CPU8.8/GPU 11.4
Syria    CPU8.8/GPU 13.4
Marianas CPU9.0/GPU 16.4
Channel CPU 8.8/16.5

Marianas still runs the worst as its the least optimized and has always run really bad even on a high end rig, Channel map whilst the CPU/GPU timings were similar felt smoother.

Looking forward to the next round, but so glad I upgraded to the 4090 still

[M1Combat]

3 minutes ago, Hotdognz said:

Just tried some other maps with MT after posting my initial thoughts and tried some heavey AI populated instant action missions, I now firmly believe I'm seeing no improvement in FPS in this first stage of the MT release on my rig, I can get better FPS my self by tweaking OpenXR Toolkit settings

Caucus CPU8.8/GPU 11.4
Syria    CPU8.8/GPU 13.4
Marianas CPU9.0/GPU 16.4
Channel CPU 8.8/16.5

Marianas still runs the worst as its the least optimized and has always run really bad even on a high end rig, Channel map whilst the CPU/GPU timings were similar felt smoother.

Looking forward to the next round, but so glad I upgraded to the 4090 still

Can you get a pic of your CPU utilization while DCS is running?

[EbonySeraphim]

3 hours ago, Beirut said:

If any of the tech wizards out there can isolate which settings are specifically helped with this, that would be lovely. Thank you.

Clarify? I just ran the multithreaded binary (bin-mt/DCS.exe), logged onto my usual ThroughTheInferno MP servers (tried all three Syria, Persia, and Caucus) and every one of them saw the massive performance increase. From what I can see with some of the follow on discussion it seems there may be some interesting tools or "optimizations" some people might be forgetting applies to their system. I don't use particular tools myself and would recommend letting Windows and your UEFI/BIOS setting do their thing:

• Verify all of your cores are active through your UEFI/BIOS
• Keep Hyper-Threading / SMT setting enabled (unless you have 33 or more "threads").
• Ensure Windows doesn't have any "CPU hardware management" software that tries to impact or configure the above settings through Windows. I can't think of a worse idea than user installed software impacting how the OS schedules work to be done on the CPU -- if it is even possible. Unless you really need it, I would uninstall such software yesterday.
• This is ambiguous: but is all core performance better than single core highest performance? Only ED can answer this effectively. For AMD overclockers this is PBO curve settings; I don't know what it is called on Intel or if all of the P-cores are all basically the same. At the end of the day, there could still be a CPU heavy "main thread" that wants the fastest core and the question is if the engine can find it and use it, or if Windows detects this and schedules it there appropriately. If neither the engine can find it, and Windows doesn't schedule the most demanding thread on your fastest core, then you're probably better off with an overall higher all core OC rather than a single fastest core. The reason being is thermals and power. Otherwise, the reverse is probably better if you see "CPU bound" enough popping up when the performance meter is on (Right CTRL + Pause).
• Disable any gaming software that claims to boost your performance. It's most certainly doing the exact opposite.

For quick reference my setup:

• Specs 5950x, 4090 (Gigabyte Gaming OC); Gigabyte Xtreme mobo; 64GB 3200 RAM (4x sticks, makes a difference how many channels you use)
• Running on a 4k @ 60hz monitor; I have 2xCubesim monitors, and 2nd 1440p monitor which renders the AMPCD of the F/A-18
• Running on up to date Windows 11; GeForce GameReady driver 531.26
  • Important: if for some reason you have the "Studio" drivers installed for an nVidia card, replace it yesterday because that driver runs game substantially slower than "Game Ready" drivers.
  • Unique: In the nVidia control panel I changed DCS specifically to Vsync "fast" option; and in-game DCS I turn Vsync on. What this does is prevent frame rate dips that are just below 60hz from being penalized all the way down to 45fps or 30fps because it misses the monitor sync signal and waits for the next. The GPU driver will always let the (old school Direct3D::Present()) call return immediately even if the application asked to wait; and present the rendered frame when it does see the sync signal.
• UEFI: Hyper-threading on
• UEFI: PBO settings are automatically optimized based on my motherboard's opinion; I don't have curves set and don't know which one is the fastest
• UEFI: XMP profile enabled. Double check that this setting didn't turn off as it sometimes can own it's own; otherwise, your RAM is running at half it's potential speed.
• UEFI: Virtualization on (I say this because some people think it improves performance to turn it off, it doesn't and I use WSL2 often)
• I deleted my Saved Games / DCS.openbeta / fxo and metashaders2 folders.
• My DCS settings are essentially maxed except the settings that are about volume rather than quality like civ traffic
  • Depth of field off
  • Motion blur off
  • Fullscreen is unchecked
  • Vsync is off
  • I actually source control my DCS config files here

This patch made me appreciate that I went with a 5950x even more (I do other stuff). I'm curious if a 5800X3D still stacks up favorably in terms of performance gains with this patch.

 

EDIT: clarified the labeling for Game Ready nVidia drivers preference over Studio driver.

Edited March 11, 2023 by EbonySeraphim

[EbonySeraphim]

13 minutes ago, Hotdognz said:

Just tried some other maps with MT after posting my initial thoughts and tried some heavey AI populated instant action missions, I now firmly believe I'm seeing no improvement in FPS in this first stage of the MT release on my rig, I can get better FPS my self by tweaking OpenXR Toolkit settings

Caucus CPU8.8/GPU 11.4
Syria    CPU8.8/GPU 13.4
Marianas CPU9.0/GPU 16.4
Channel CPU 8.8/16.5

Marianas still runs the worst as its the least optimized and has always run really bad even on a high end rig, Channel map whilst the CPU/GPU timings were similar felt smoother.

Looking forward to the next round, but so glad I upgraded to the 4090 still

Assuming those are processing times, what that's showing me is a clear picture: your GPU is the bottleneck. With those per-frame processing times, your CPU is finishing at 111-113fps, and your GPU is at 90fps for Caucus (fastest); and 60fps for Channel (slowest).

 

The GPU numbers alone look too slow as I have a 4090 as well, but I truthfully don't know how much VR changes things. What is more suspicious to me is that even though your CPU times are fast enough, they still seem on the slow side of things for what others have gotten out of this patch. Can you direct me to one of the heavy AI populated instant action missions so I can compare? I'm fairly certain 113fps is a 1% low for me with a 5950x; and I'm guessing you have a comparable or better CPU if you also have a 4090.

[Beirut]

20 minutes ago, EbonySeraphim said:

 

For quick reference my setup:

• Specs 5950x, 4090 (Gigabyte Gaming OC); Gigabyte Xtreme mobo; 64GB 3200 RAM (4x sticks, makes a difference how many channels you use)
•  

 

No, no, no. Your setup is completely wrong. Send me your 4090 post haste and get yourself a card that better suits your rig. I'm here to help, and you're welcome.

 

A good deal of what you wrote was either Greek or simply frightening, I'll read it again, slowly.

 

But I just took a solo F-18 run over Beirut  with and without MT, 400knots, very low, settings a bit high. Without MT was ~25, with MT was ~40. Holy Cow Pies, that was impressive! 

[Zebra1-1]

Finally just got to try it. Steam Edition and using OpenXR via OpenComposite. Only did a quick Instant Action mission, but a noticeable gain for me. Everything just feels smoother on a whole. Absolutely zero issues. Excellent work Devs! This is lovely. 

[Nevyn]

Start, run, type msconfig then enter, or right click start, select run, type msconfig then enter.

[JIGGAwest]

pretty good gains here!! great work guys.

short benchmark track replay used. 3 test aggregated for MT on and MT off.

4090 R9-5900x 64gb 

 

 

CarrierdeckBenchmark.trk

[KeyserSoze62]

3 hours ago, Zebra1-1 said:

Exactly.

 

There is also a known bug in the latest Nvidia driver that has caused performance issues. It's a noticeable for me. I could roll back to the previous version, but I'm too lazy. So hopefully I'll end up with two smaller bumps in performance once the driver is fixed. I haven't seen much discussion about the driver though. Makes me wonder how many people with issues are on the latest driver (for Nvidia users). 

There is a patch for the Nvidia driver issue you can find here. 

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5450

https://international.download.nvidia.com/Windows/531.26hf/531.26-desktop-notebook-win10-win11-64bit-international-dch.hf.exe

 

[ISantus]

Quite pleased with the update. Lots more tinkering to do but overall first pass with the new patch is impressive. FPS improvements between 13% and 70% depending, averaging 43% improvement. FPS average of 49 improved to 70 in my standard settings that I have been using and up to 57 on maxed settings. I am officially GPU bound with a 4090. 

• VR (Reverb G2)
• 5900x (No OC)
• 4090 (No OC)
• 32gb (4x8@3600)
• Windows 11 (all drivers and updates)

4 tests

1. Supercarrier cold start
2. Super carrier Launch
3. Syria Cold start
4. Syria free flight

nullWhen I say all settings maxed in my test, I mean (almost) everything. All shadows (and all types) maxed, 4xMSAA, 16xAF, not using any of the other filters. Cockpit global illumination on. All running through OpenXR. PD 1.0 in both WMR and DCS. Crystal clear, studder free, rock solid. WIth motion reprojection I hold 45 FPS even with everything maxed. All of this in single player of course. 

 

 

[Sr.]

Checked my pancake mode, and the difference is pretty significant.

No MT: 130-170 F-16 Free Flight Caucuses

W/ MT:  160-190 F-16 Free Flight Caucuses

All settings maxed

 

Still nothing to write home about on the VR side.

 

I am curious though... while I usually run VR in 60Hz mode, tonight I was comparison testing with the G2 set at 90Hz.

With nothing in OXRTK, AMD Adrenaline Edition or RivaTuner controlling frame rate, the in game counter shows locked at 45 in game, starts out locked at 90 in the menu hangar. Is there some other frame limiter in play now? And I'm not using motion repro.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Sr.

[Roosterfeet]

Multi-Threading is promising but still buggy. I honestly think Scale GUI is the best new feature. It's about time. Without scaling, 1440p + middle age = Eyestrain Headaches.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Roosterfeet

[Zebra1-1]

There is a patch for the Nvidia driver issue you can find here. 
https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5450
https://international.download.nvidia.com/Windows/531.26hf/531.26-desktop-notebook-win10-win11-64bit-international-dch.hf.exe
 

That was quick!

Thank you kindly sir.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

[Hillman]

The performance gains on complex missions are great in MT.Complex campaigns that stuttered are now butter smooth.  In simple missions it's more or less as ST for me (which was 60-90 fps anyways)

My problem is that it seems like something has changed wrgt the support for OculusVR runtime; I'm not able to run DCS/Pico4 with the Oculus runtime in the new MT-patch. In ST it works as before. In ST you get into Oculus runtime by starting the Virtual desktop streamer with dcs.exe as a param and you have DCS in Oculus runtime. Now the same forces you into OpenVR/SteamVR. The screen flicker like mad, I'm positioned several meters to high in the VR world and need to recenter, the performance is slightly lower, visual quality is not as good as before and when I exit DCS I'm left in this anoying Steam world which I then need to exit to get back to Windows. Everything worked so much nicer and with less hassel with OculusVR.

What has changed in MT? Could we please get a --force_OculusVR parameter?

Very happy for the MT, just that the user experience was a step back in this particular area.

PS: also tried with the force_OpenXR with the same results.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Hillman

[Catweedle]

8 hours ago, Tango3B said:

True, that was how it initially looked in my settings. My performance sucked at first, though. Then, I set it to this new setting (sorry, it´s german language, but you will get it, anyway). This improved performance significantly on my end...so yeah, I don´t know why but it helped me.

 

EDIT: Full Screen on does also yield some additional FPS for me. Bizarre, but true. Try it...

 

Tango, what unlikely_spider said is correct. The unchecked "Prozessoranzahl" box will boot all cores. Uncheck the box, restart, and see for yourself in the task manager's CPU performance tab (should look pretty much the same under Win10):

Edited March 11, 2023 by Catweedle

[Gunfreak]

In vr when using full screen mirror. It's extremely stretched. Not in the Googles just the mirror. Makes it hard to capture video 

And open vr capture in obs studios is now black. Won't record 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Gunfreak