waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Viper ZA]

I don't mind if ED take over the Harrier and offer an upgrade to the Plus model. My favorite Jet.

 

[Majinbot]

  On 5/25/2024 at 4:37 PM, Rudel_chw said:

Instead, what I'm doing is withholding all my DCS purchases (almost all, couldn't refrain from purchasing Kola, but I did refrain from the CH-47 and Afghanistan), until this situation is solved ... but I will still keep playing DCS as I have quite a lot of modules already purchased and abandoning them would solve nothing.

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I was also planning to buy the F-4 and Afghanistan. I had little faith in Razbam, but I got the F-15e because it's a great plane. Now my confidence has dropped to zero.

[Rudel_chw]

  On 5/26/2024 at 11:10 AM, Majinbot said:

I was also planning to buy the F-4 and Afghanistan.

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I would also have refrained from the F-4, but I had it already pre-purchased it before all of this RB-ED debacle 

[Ignition]

  On 5/25/2024 at 4:42 PM, DN308 said:

Sure. 
I’m not whining, I’m just worried about the fact that I have paid for something that I should loose soon without any consideration for the customers.

Of course I will still fly other modules but I’m just really disappointed and concerned 

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I'm with you.

A solution would be to not buy anything more and enjoy what we have. That's what I'm doing until something happens with the F-15E, money back or resume the development.

[DN308]

  On 5/26/2024 at 9:38 PM, Ignition said:

I'm with you.

A solution would be to not buy anything more and enjoy what we have. That's what I'm doing until something happens with the F-15E, money back or resume the development.

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Yeah, for me it’s a no more bucks until I have the proof that the module I bought is supported and completed. Or at least the money back.

That’s sad because I love this sim and I wanted to buy the Astan’s map to have the chance to fly over my FOB and support myself on the ground but the actual situation makes me loose any confidence in the ED’s company.

and more, what I want is the module, not the money

[LorenLuke]

Can we claim false advertising? I very much recall something like five months of posts by RAZBAM for 'the year of the Strike Eagle', and it didn't even last a year!

[LeCuvier]

ED have taken my money and they made a commitment to deliver the F-15E. As an early access version first, but evolving to the complete version.
Any problem between ED and Razbam should not be my problem.

If ED cannot resolve the problem in an acceptable way, then they should give me credit for the full amount I paid. With that credit I should be able to buy any one of the ED modules.
I would probably use it to buy the F-4.

Also, ED should communicate to their customer base. They are totally failing in that area, and they are doing a huge disservice to themselves. They are destroying customer confidence, and that can be deadly for any business. For the time being, I'm holding back on any futher purchases.

[Romandv]

  On 5/27/2024 at 8:30 AM, LeCuvier said:

ED have taken my money and they made a commitment to deliver the F-15E. As an early access version first, but evolving to the complete version.
Any problem between ED and Razbam should not be my problem.

If ED cannot resolve the problem in an acceptable way, then they should give me credit for the full amount I paid. With that credit I should be able to buy any one of the ED modules.
I would probably use it to buy the F-4.

Also, ED should communicate to their customer base. They are totally failing in that area, and they are doing a huge disservice to themselves. They are destroying customer confidence, and that can be deadly for any business. For the time being, I'm holding back on any futher purchases.

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I don't want to defend ED, but I think the main mistake is to work with RAZBAM after all their modules already previously released. It's just that this dev is used to the Middle Ages - a huge number of aircraft in civilian simulators are developed on the same principle: release, forget, remember and maybe update sometime. Any problems appear and you can end support.

It is not surprising that it happened with RAZBAM. I hope that ED will be more diligent in their search for developers in the future. We won't be reimbursed for the modules - that's a fact. But I'm not too upset, because buying from such a third party developer you always expect a catch. This, not surprisingly, happened.

[Terzi]

Somehow I have an observation that Razbam is possibly working for incoming MSFS 2024 which has a marketplace that offers at least 10x more customers than DCS. Sweet money for Razbam eh? Why bother finishing F-15E for few cents? You think Razbam would finish F-15E at the same pace after getting money? See their social media flourishing with non-DCS new things. This may be the source of the dispute. Its good that ED does not let anyone else becoming the next VEAO.

Edited May 27, 2024 by Terzi

[bomber]

I just think under the circumstances it’s the “right thing to do” to suspend its sale.

[Devil 505]

  On 5/25/2024 at 2:37 AM, Hammer1-1 said:

Ive worked on the MQ25 program for about 2 years and recently left Boeing because of all the issues I see on that line. The NAVY sees issues as well..and I know that if Boeing doesnt deliver, that contract is in jeopardy.

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Probably not the best thing to put on a forum anywhere regarding DOD contracts.  Boeing would not be happy.  I might edit that statement and/or remove it.  DOD customers such as the Navy would not care to have their difficulties placed on a public forum in regard to a civilian flight sim.  Bad business practice and 100% certain a violation of separation nondisclosures you had to sign leaving Boeing.  Just some friendly advice from someone in the industry.  

[Rhinozherous]

So, I think thats it with the F15E and razbam doing stuff for DCS... I have no hopes anymore that there is something good coming from this mess. Either they stop the whole project or they continue and bring us something half assed... For sure it changed my mind how I buy stuff for DCS in general!

Edited May 27, 2024 by Rhinozherous

[j9murphy]

This is all speculation on my part below, but I have a lot of experience with contracts and software platforms and there seems to be a lot of speculation by people who just know the situation sucks for everyone. it does – no argument there.  The following scenario is my own, I only offer it to demonstrate to people there is a bigger picture out there and in the end it’s better not to blame, and to just hold out hope and have a little faith in ED.  If these have already been written about, then I apologize. I don’t really have time read all that’s been written here and elsewhere…

Assumption #1:  ED holds the money.  I think this is a good assumption. ED owns the platform, and has a vested interest in protecting its user base and ensuring we get quality products from 3^rd party providers like Razbam.

Assumption #2:  Releasing the money requires 3^rd party vendors like Razbam to meet certain contractual requirements, and that release is probably in several tranches as those requirements are met.

Assumption #3: In the eyes of ED, Razbam failed to meet certain criteria in the contract that would have led to the release of the next tranche of money.  Here’s where things get sticky, we don’t know if Razbam was running short of cash and wanted an early release of some of that money, or the contract was written poorly and each side is interpreting those payment hurdles differently, or if ED felt that Razbam was in danger of no longer being a going concern. There could be other explanations as well.  However, one could assume that ED believes it is protecting its users.   If it gives the money to Razbam and they go out of business before it is finished, or they are in danger of not being able to deliver what is promised, then all of us who bought the module would probably be asking for a refund because we weren’t given what we were promised.  If ED gave all the money to Razbam and we all wanted a refund, then who is left holding the empty bag – why ED of course.  The last thing ED wants is to owe those refunds out of its own pocket, that’s probably why they hold the money, and to release it, the vendor (Razbam in this case) has to meet certain requirements.

Assumption #4:  ED and Razbam are trying to find a way forward where Razbam remains a going concern, they get paid what they are owed, DCS customers get a quality, finished product and everyone is happy.

If the moderator thinks this speculation is harmful, is way off base (or too close to home), please delete the post, I wont argue.  I just think people are throwing stones when they probably don’t really understand the environment this is playing out in. I don’t know if the above is what’s going on, I have no knowledge of the situation, but I do think both parties are incented to find a resolution.

Edited May 27, 2024 by j9murphy

[Rainmaker]

  On 5/27/2024 at 7:45 PM, j9murphy said:

This is all speculation on my part below, but I have a lot of experience with contracts and software platforms and there seems to be a lot of speculation by people who just know the situation sucks for everyone. it does – no argument there.  The following scenario is my own, I only offer it to demonstrate to people there is a bigger picture out there and in the end it’s better not to blame, and to just hold out hope and have a little faith in ED.  If these have already been written about, then I apologize. I don’t really have time read all that’s been written here and elsewhere…

Assumption #1:  ED holds the money.  I think this is a good assumption. ED owns the platform, and has a vested interest in protecting its user base and ensuring we get quality products from 3^rd party providers like Razbam.

Assumption #2:  Releasing the money requires 3^rd party vendors like Razbam to meet certain contractual requirements, and that release is probably in several tranches as those requirements are met.

Assumption #3: In the eyes of ED, Razbam failed to meet certain criteria in the contract that would have led to the release of the next tranche of money.  Here’s where things get sticky, we don’t know if Razbam was running short of cash and wanted an early release of some of that money, or the contract was written poorly and each side is interpreting those payment hurdles differently, or if ED felt that Razbam was in danger of no longer being a going concern. There could be other explanations as well.  However, one could assume that ED believes it is protecting its users.   If it gives the money to Razbam and they go out of business before it is finished, or they are in danger of not being able to deliver what is promised, then all of us who bought the module would probably be asking for a refund because we weren’t given what we were promised.  If ED gave all the money to Razbam and we all wanted a refund, then who is left holding the empty bag – why ED of course.  The last thing ED wants is to owe those refunds out of its own pocket, that’s probably why they hold the money, and to release it, the vendor (Razbam in this case) has to meet certain requirements.

Assumption #4:  ED and Razbam are trying to find a way forward where Razbam remains a going concern, they get paid what they are owed, DCS customers get a quality, finished product and everyone is happy.

If the moderator thinks this speculation is harmful, is way off base (or too close to home), please delete the post, I wont argue.  I just think people are throwing stones when they probably don’t really understand the environment this is playing out in. I don’t know if the above is what’s going on, I have no knowledge of the situation, but I do think both parties are incented to find a resolution.

 

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No need to speculate on any of that really. Read the statement from NG on what is being accused, and it has nothing to do with what you are thinking. 

[Top Jockey]

  On 5/27/2024 at 8:23 PM, Rainmaker said:

No need to speculate on any of that really. Read the statement from NG on what is being accused, and it has nothing to do with what you are thinking. 

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Where is it ?

Thank you.

[Gizmo03]

  On 5/27/2024 at 9:05 PM, Top Jockey said:

 

Where is it ?

Thank you.

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First page, scroll down a bit (something like post No 25)

Edited May 27, 2024 by Gizmo03

[j9murphy]

  On 5/27/2024 at 8:23 PM, Rainmaker said:

No need to speculate on any of that really. Read the statement from NG on what is being accused, and it has nothing to do with what you are thinking. 

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perhaps, although that is (intentionally) a bit vague 

Edited May 27, 2024 by j9murphy

[Rainmaker]

  On 5/27/2024 at 11:34 PM, j9murphy said:

perhaps, although that is (intentionally) a bit vague null 

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Indeed. Vague without substance doesnt help the situation either. If what the more-vocal side has said is true. 
A.  The claim has nothing has nothing to do with DCS or the modules within

B.  It relates to a module (if you wanna call it that), that doesn’t exist in anything that’s usable to this point. 
 

Take from all that what you wish. That’s all in what you want to believe to be the case. 

[Hammer1-1]

of course its vague, they havent met a contractual obligation and went against the contract in calling out the way they did...like a non-disparaging agreement on top of not meeting another goal.

Edited May 28, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[nuNce]

  On 5/25/2024 at 6:02 AM, Evg85 said:

The RAZBAM business model reminds me of the Pyramid scheme, with all these promised but unfinished modules. Every time they create a new project based on famous aircraft in order to get as much money as possible on the wave of hype. After the hype disappears and the financial flow decreases, they abandon the old project and create a new hype project and the cycle repeats again. RAZBAM is not about love and passion for airplane modeling. It's about quick and easy money.

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Now replace RAZBAM with Eagle Dynamics... 

[Romandv]

  On 5/28/2024 at 3:45 AM, nuNce said:

Now replace RAZBAM with Eagle Dynamics... 

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Yes, but we know about the reputation of RAZBAM. It is absolutely not surprising that this happened to them, and not to some other third-party dev.

[draconus]

  On 5/25/2024 at 4:29 PM, DN308 said:

Try to buy a brand new car without the wheels and the windshield, and be happy with that…

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More like a fully working car but there are a few rarely used buttons not working, some mix of radio and UI settings can freeze, not all features work in a dashboard computer and it's not yet compatible with some external equipment.

I paid for the module because I like the aircraft. Refund would give me nothing instead. I'd rather use F-15E as is but I'll be very vocal if it stops working in DCS. Hope for the best.

[Evg85]

  On 5/28/2024 at 3:45 AM, nuNce said:

Now replace RAZBAM with Eagle Dynamics... 

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Nope, it won't work. ED continue to work on their projects. The latest update only confirms this.

[Gizmo03]

  On 5/28/2024 at 8:11 AM, draconus said:

Refund would give me nothing instead. I'd rather use F-15E as is but I'll be very vocal if it stops working in DCS. Hope for the best.

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Exactly this. All this people screaming for a refund….. i don‘t want a refund. Just give me what i‘ve paid for - or just don‘t take away what you‘ve already delivered by now. 

[nuNce]

  On 5/28/2024 at 8:11 AM, Evg85 said:

Nope, it won't work. ED continue to work on their projects. The latest update only confirms this.

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Imagine people stop buying their modules for 8 months because of the insane amount of broken promises (supercarrier, combined arms, AI updates, the list goes on) and lets see how long the train ride lasts.