First ever DCS: F-4E Phantom II Feedback Thread - May 22nd 2024

[Checkmate]

To the entire team at Heatblur. THANK YOU for not only raising the bar, but for bring this iconic aircraft to life. 

Edited May 27, 2024 by Checkmate

[Kirk66]

On 5/24/2024 at 12:00 AM, Elf1606688794 said:

I watched aircrews talk to crew chiefs (and vice versa) under those very conditions many times.

You never have a ramp full of running jets and -60's. Well, one time I saw an elephant walk with 104 Phantoms. That was pretty neat, but it was just one time.

Never been to a Red Flag? Or a squadron ramp during a sortie surge? Pretty loud, and my custom fit helmet did a good job of muffling the sounds - including anything the CC would say until he plugged in with his headset - which had special mouth cups to block the ramp sounds. So before puttin on helmets and starting the dash-60, sure you can talk to the CC. Once the start process begins, it's hand signals or a plugged in intercom. At least that's the way we did it.

Vulture

[Kirk66]

On 5/24/2024 at 6:06 PM, Elf1606688794 said:

Just curious, did you guys model random leaks of various fluids? One of the REALLY nice things about the Eagle is that it rarely leaked fluids on you and if it did, it was soon fixed. It seemed like the Phantom was always leaking something or other. It would kinda seem wrong in a way if the Phantom didn't leak on us. 

You must have had better ears than me - anyway you are absolutely correct about Rhinos leaking (during preflight, it it ain't leaking, it's empty) so HB did do the fuel venting when the externals and wing tanks pressurise, and when you fly inverted. Thats a start., now we need the wing vents pissing like a horse on a flat rock on a hot day after a fillup of cool JP-8 starts warming up.

Cheers!

Vulture

[Romandv]

To be honest, I can't even believe that the aircraft is immediately usable - I haven't found any problems since release, everything works. The aircraft is worth every dollar. Thank you, HB, for your work and for not promising what you didn't deliver - that's a fair trade.

I look forward to your new developments.

 

Edited May 28, 2024 by Romandv

[saunder]

20 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

Should anti skid not be off during taxiing and then turned on when lined up on the runway though?

I have found it to be too sensitive when taxiing with anti skid off it's like taxiing on ice.

[YSIAD_RIP]

Resolved my Problem with "Autopilot" AFCS ALT toggle switch binding would not Engage:  "Thanks to @zildac from another F4-E post on this forum.

I did read all the AFCS, deadzone related and breakout limit text in the Heatblur manual but I never thought I would need to increase the AFCS Special Options deadzone by so much. 

• I needed to increase the Special Options AFCS Breakout Deadzone for Pitch and Roll all the way up to 6.5% for Pitch and Roll. 
• Maybe this tip should be added to the Heatblur Issues you may Encounter Document posted by @IronMike?

Edited May 28, 2024 by YSIAD_RIP

[bfr]

42 minutes ago, saunder said:

I have found it to be too sensitive when taxiing with anti skid off it's like taxiing on ice.

I haven't found the taxi handling too bad if you keep the speed down. Although it seems to be a proper handful for me if you try and correct direction on takeoff roll with rudder. I need to figure out if I need to apply some curve or something to the rudder axis as it seems to just leap in one direction even with slight rudder input.

[Cgjunk2]

I was not planning on buying this module, as it wasn’t a plane of particular interest to me, and I figured my potato would not be able to run it smoothly .   But relented once I saw all my online buddies having a blast with it.  
 

No regrets missing out on the pre-release price…in my eyes you guys have earned the full purchase price!  The performance is way better than I thought it would be.   The cockpit frames rates are much, much better compared to the tomcat when it first released. 

This is an amazing module!  Your responses as developers  to questions and feedback  is very professional and it’s very apparent to me the heatblur team is extremely passionate about their work.  I think the DCS community is truly lucky to have such talented folks like Heatblur making airplanes to this level of detail.

I’m watching with interest the discussions about the control stick modeling that decouples the virtual stick from the physical stick.  I have strong preference for the stick displacement to be absolutely controlled by me, partly because I’ve put some money and thought into peripherals that allow me to closely model control throws as close to 1:1 across most of my favorite modules.  Since my stick is not FFB, I use trim and spring force when I’’m “off-center” as a proxy for control pressure.   It works well once I let my imagination interpret making trim changes as “relieving pressure” instead of stick movement.  And while I think it’s impossible to convincingly transmit an impression of force or changing trim center to a non FFB stick, I do think there is a big “sim design philosophy” component to all this that falls outside the scope of correct/incorrect.  
 

Regardless, I await the official Heatblur description of the philosophy and modeling behind the stick simulation before making up my mind.  Especially since I know nothing about how the actual F-4 was designed.    I hope the feedback and discourse on this particular topic remains respectful and honors the time and thought put into this F-4 simulation.  And I also hope that nobody views the possibility of future changes in this area as some sort of waste of effort on Heatblurs part.   It certainly isn’t, since the thought that went into modeling the bob weight and bellows seems to be reason enough for me to start saving for the strongest FFB stick I can afford! 
 

Congratulations to the Heatblur team on an epic simulation!

Edited May 29, 2024 by Cgjunk2

[Badger1-1]

any news on a hotfix? Today maybe?

[Freakmeister51]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:51 PM, Kirk66 said:

Never been to a Red Flag? Or a squadron ramp during a sortie surge? Pretty loud, and my custom fit helmet did a good job of muffling the sounds - including anything the CC would say until he plugged in with his headset - which had special mouth cups to block the ramp sounds. So before puttin on helmets and starting the dash-60, sure you can talk to the CC. Once the start process begins, it's hand signals or a plugged in intercom. At least that's the way we did it.

Vulture

We always used throat mics for our aircraft operations

[aaronwhite]

While I've had a ton of crashing issues to deal with that I'm working on documenting with the hope that Heatblur can sort it out, the module still feels incredible. The crashes make learning it a bit tough, but it's still a blast to just fly around when I can. Like the F-14, I wasn't really super excited for the F-4 when it was revealed (heresy, I know) but I picked it up just wanting to support a developer in DCS that continues to create great work and really push the envelope for what's possible in DCS. 

It's definitely a bigger learning hurdle to clear compared to the modern "smart" planes with detailed HUDs and much simpler avionics and HOTAS controls, and the crashing makes it tough to actually progress, but damn the thing just makes you want to get in and fly. 

[Spirale]

i've bought the F4 too, first to support HB for the high quality modules they deliver. But , while i like the F4, i tend to prefer the Viggen ( just my personnal opinion). Cold war too but a bit more spicy and accurate in the terminal delivery. The Viggen is faster with mavericks delivery ( and have 4 of them oboard), easier with the control of the radio missile RB05 compare to plantom's one ( agm12). For anti ship mission = no comment the Viggen is the King, for dumb bombs i can not compare, the Viggen can CCIP, DYK, the F4 can not

Obviously the F4 can do things the Viggen can't: guided bombs .

After that: i am happy with the F4, i fly this beauty and it is a different feeling compare to the Viggen.

Well done HB

[Cgjunk2]

Not sure of the source of this issue; but in VR I’m noticing a delay between my my head movement and the movement of the virtual pilot head reflected in the mirrors.  The reflection lags behind my head movement considerably.  For example sometimes I can complete a quick check around the canopy frame in front me before the reflection is even half way through imitating my movement.  Sometimes it seems the reflection is somebody behind a”mirror” pretending to be a reflection, like they do in a comedy movie lol.  Is this a processor limitation on my end?  For now Ive turned off mirrors to avoid the feeling of diziness it can induce, but curious if anyone has any ideas. 

[Hiob]

32 minutes ago, average_pilot said:

I noticed that as soon as pre-release videos started to roll out and thought it was a deliberated effect to allow the player to look at the model from different angles and wondered if the effect would be disabled for VR. Personally I hate how mirrors work in DCS and only enable them for a moment in new modules to confirm they are as wrong as always.

Unfortunately, I have to agree on the mirrors issue. In the best case, it is the off-putting low resolution, in the worst cases they are a complete mess front and center. On top of it, the implementation of „blinded“ mirrors in inconsistent between modules, varying between pretty good and annoying. I default to turn them off, event though my hardware would allow to use them. The phantom doesn’t solve the issue for me neither.

I‘d wish, ED would take the best practice across all modules (for activated and blinded mirrors) and make them a mandatory standard. At least we would have consistent experience then. But that’s just me.

[Mud]

For me the mirrors is so far the only thing I do not like about the F-4E. I like the ones we have in the F-14 a lot more, and think they are the best of any module I own.
In the F-4E, the delayed movement, while smooth, is pretty off-putting and ruins immersion. I also miss being able to head bang in real-time on long boring flights like in the F-14

For the record: I fly in VR.

Apart from that I absolutely love the module. Great job, Heatblur!

[Miro]

Do You guys got frequent CTD's with F4? I don't know, it's F4, or Kola or my setup?

[Tom Kazansky]

2 minutes ago, Miro said:

Do You guys got frequent CTD's with F4? I don't know, it's F4, or Kola or my setup?

Not a single crash with the F-4E here, but I've only used it with Caucasus and NTTR, so far (i.e. since release day)

[bfr]

31 minutes ago, Miro said:

Do You guys got frequent CTD's with F4? I don't know, it's F4, or Kola or my setup?

No CTDs for me since release and i've mostly been flying it around Kola.

[upyr1]

Awesome job, 

So far my wishlist of what I would love to see added

• Enable Jester to fly while refueling- it might be considered a cheat by some but the backseater had controls and I've read at least one F-4 pilot say it was easier from the WSO seat
• Add jester context function to the AGM-65 (if this is already done but I'm just missing it let me know)

 

[kablamoman]

9 hours ago, Cgjunk2 said:

Not sure of the source of this issue; but in VR I’m noticing a delay between my my head movement and the movement of the virtual pilot head reflected in the mirrors.  The reflection lags behind my head movement considerably.  For example sometimes I can complete a quick check around the canopy frame in front me before the reflection is even half way through imitating my movement.  Sometimes it seems the reflection is somebody behind a”mirror” pretending to be a reflection, like they do in a comedy movie lol.  Is this a processor limitation on my end?  For now Ive turned off mirrors to avoid the feeling of diziness it can induce, but curious if anyone has any ideas. 

They’ve mentioned in other threads it’s a known issue and they’re working on options to improve it.

It sounds like they’ve got a smoothing filter on the movements that interpolates between polled positions of the pilot head so you get a better animation. This necessarily introduces latency. They’ve talked about adding a mode that doesn’t interpolate and so would be a more instantaneous response, but at the cost of being a bit less smooth.

All this to say, not to worry it has nothing to do with your system.

 

[YSIAD_RIP]

6 hours ago, Mud said:

For me the mirrors is so far the only thing I do not like about the F-4E. I like the ones we have in the F-14 a lot more, and think they are the best of any module I own.
In the F-4E, the delayed movement, while smooth, is pretty off-putting and ruins immersion. I also miss being able to head bang in real-time on long boring flights like in the F-14

For the record: I fly in VR.

Apart from that I absolutely love the module. Great job, Heatblur!

Agree on the F-4E Mirrors 100%:

• Looking forward to future updates of the F-4 when mirrors are optimized and the handy "tilt" feature like in that the F-14 and other modules is implemented.  Thanks Heatblur. 

[ColonelDoom]

Beautifully crafted. I can't play it though because I can't see the target when diving because of the fogging. 

Defog lever Temp control and emergency vent don't make the target clea

 

[r4y30n]

Beautifully crafted. I can't play it though because I can't see the target when diving because of the fogging. 
Defog lever Temp control and emergency vent don't make the target clea
 

What were the weather conditions?

[Q3ark]

2 hours ago, ColonelDoom said:

Beautifully crafted. I can't play it though because I can't see the target when diving because of the fogging. 

Defog lever Temp control and emergency vent don't make the target clea

 

Wait what!?! They put canopy fog effects in? 

[ColonelDoom]

4 hours ago, r4y30n said:

What were the weather conditions?

Not at home but if I remember correctly Broken cumulus clouds at 9000 ft in afternoon 

At 500ft I put heating control on manual, temp control knob to 2 o'clock, foot heater lever to defog

30secs later popped up to 8500 ft, started steep dive on sams and activated emergency vent but still could not see target. Was in vr mode so had to lean my head out the cockpit to see the target. Far less realistic than no fogging in the cockpit. Couldn't see any detail through the hud.

Do the same thing in the mirage F1 and can see the target clearly (no fiddling with heating and venting etc )

I don't mind fiddling if it gets a result but is no fun and frankly frustrating and unplqayable if you just can't see the target.

Would rather see detail with the same clarity as the in the other planes and forego the fogging realism.