The Dynamic Campaign... WHEN?!?!?

[Frag]

As a mission designer that have been working with EDs different products since the flanker days, i'm a bit worried about if ED is aware of complete rework of AI that will have to be done in order to make a dynamic campaign working. I spends more time in the mission editor then in the cockpit, and part of that time is spent previewing AI behaviour in missions over and over again until you can get the behaviour you want in the mission. I feel that the AI is a joke, a bad bad joke. Everything you build has to be micromanaged to a level that you can not call the AI an AI anymore. And the parts where the AI actually has a bit of independent thinking, you often need to turn it off, or use community made scrips to micro manage it, like MOOSE, to get a behaviour that is not ridiculous. Even with all my skill and all the different tools used you still have AI that more often kills itself by not being able to for example manage fuel consumption and crashing due to running out of fuel, or not knowing when to pull up when getting in a dogfight or evading a missile, then to being hit by enemy fire. And don't even get me started on the ground AI... It is not even an AI, it is literally a way of moving targets around, and even that does not work. A common problem in my squadrons recent manually edited online dynamic campaign is that ground units just stop following orders, and get stuck with no way of making them move, at all. I really hope that ED realises that in order to make a dynamic campaign that will not just cause people to be disappointed and feel cheated they will have to totally rework the way the AI behaves or this will be money wasted. At least if it is to be a truly dynamic campaign where what you do actually affect the outcome of things, and not just a mission generator running with the ability to save in between missions. Because at this point the best way to win against the AI is just let them fly around killing themselves until they run out of air-frames. And wait for the ground AI to get stuck on a trees or buildings or just get bugged out so that the ground offensive is won.

 

This is actually the wall that ED will need to pass thru to be able to implement the dynamic campaign. The AI will require a FULL rewrite before being able to use it as units in the dynamic campaign. It is already mostly impossible to ask the AI to do anything basic as it is.

 

The good news is that the day that we will see the dynamic campaign will also mean the the AI will now be really smart, which will be a very happy day for the DCS players.

 

I personally think that ED should change the way they generate revenue (abandon the free to play model), charge more money for the release of DCS world 3.0 and go full AI/full dynamic campaign.

 

Also I think that the AI should use the same interface as the player to fly the aircraft, therefore inheriting directly from the aircraft characteristic like the player does.

 

As it is, when the player fly the plane, he is probably passing thru those layers.

 

COCKPIT UI -> PLANE COCKPIT API -> CORE ENGINE THAT CONTROL THE AIRCRAFT.

 

Would be interesting if the AI would be in fact a Pilot AI that would need to pass thru the same layers.

 

So ...

 

Pilot AI -> PLANE COCKPIT API -> CORE ENGINE THAT CONTROL THE AIRCRAFT

 

It would be therefore impossible for the AI to accomplish maneuvers that cannot be done with the aircraft. It would be limited to the aircraft capabilities like the player does.

[JFS737]

Bump

 

Just hoping for any updated info.

 

Regards,

 

John

[MeatBall]

Just hoping for any updated info.

 

Regards,

 

John

 

+Inf

I don't know what to do, i know how to fly but without a war

 

Dynamic campaign

Better AI

Track replay

 

This 3 and i can say goodbye to real life

[Silver_Dragon]

Just hoping for any updated info.

 

Regards,

 

John

 

Updated info was posted 2020 and Beyond newsletter

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4168367&postcount=233

Dynamic Campaign

Work on the dynamic campaign has been underway for over a year, and the progress has been steady on this very complex task. We understand that this is one of the most awaited features in DCS World and we are giving it the attention it deserves.

 

Much of the work is focused on the dynamic campaign creation tool layers as part of the Mission Editor, developing machine learning mechanics, and creating an AI neural network for the RTS element of the system. The machine learning and neural network tasks are particularly challenging, but we believe they should provide a unique dynamic campaign experience.

 

We expect to start testing this feature in the latter part of 2020.

[upyr1]

I'm concerned about how scaleable the campaign will be. I don't want everything to be a massive campaign, I would like the option to set up a small campaign such as a carrier battle or a battle between a couple of divisions

[Harlikwin]

I wouldn't expect to see it till 2021 at the earliest, and probably 2022. Given what dates are in DCS these days.

[Worrazen]

Pssst ... I hope it stays exclusive to DCS and not MAC :devil_2:

 

(BTW: If MAC scope was explanded than originally planned, should it really be all that DCS is minus full fidelity modules? There should be some incentive to strive for the reality-professional level in some ways)

Edited June 10, 2020 by Worrazen

[stormrider]

At last some good news coming from ED.

[MeatBall]

At last some good news coming from ED.

 

please, where?

ty

[Silver_Dragon]

please, where?

 

ty

Chech my post

 

Enviado desde mi RNE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

[MeatBall]

Chech my post

 

Enviado desde mi RNE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

 

 

i'm a donk :(

sorry

[Mr_Burns]

Hey ED, any update on DC - dont mean like, release date kind of info, just interested in the kind of issues there are with creating DC.

 

 

Assume you will be creating lots of Intellectual Property to crack this nut but would be trully interested in the kind of hurdles you come up against rather than an out and out progress report.

 

 

Appreciate every programmer and their dog would have an opinion on how to overcome the hurdles but regardless of that I think some insight would be fantastic.

[Tom Kazansky]

First Pic of Dynamic campaign engine.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/upload/iblock/04b/dynamics-campaign-engine.jpg

 

Enviado desde mi RNE-L21 mediante Tapatalk

 

 

WIP pic

[Scooternutz]

If we had the ability to save a mission in progress that would be good enough for me. Imagine what we could do with that?!!!!

[unknown]

Latest news from todays weekend newsletter:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4446619&postcount=265

 

The DCS World Dynamic Campaign Engine combines a Real-Time Strategy (RTS) engine

with military forces and economics layers (production, logistics, use and transfer of resources)

that pitch two opposing sides aided by advanced strategic and tactical AI.

 

We have now completed the core RTS logic and have connected it to DCS World. We are

currently finalising the basics of the in-game economic models. We will be working on the

combat tasking logic and certain win-win situations in the near future. The last stage will

be the Client - Server architecture needed to support large campaigns with on-going

online sessions.

 

We are certain that you will have many detailed questions and look forward to revealing

more information on this module as and when we are in position to demonstrate some

of the features live.

[idenwen]

On 1/17/2019 at 5:31 PM, Wags said:

...

This is a very high-priority item for us with good progress. However, this is a highly complex undertaking and it will take time, but certainly not "5 years".

...

5 years since that post

Can a new estimate be posted please?

Edited July 29, 2024 by idenwen

[StandingCow]

2 hours ago, idenwen said:

5 years since that post

Can a new estimate be posted please?

 

Certainly not 5 years from now....

[Lionel Mandrake]

In b4 COVID19, war in Ukraine, unexpected delays or whatever overused tired excuse ED can come up with to justify why there is still no dynamic campaign. "Certainly not 5 years" lol, lmao even.

[Pillowcat]

At least vacancies for RTS engine programmer finally disappear from ED site (not much) time ago, so there is probably someone who working on dynamic campaign for half year(?) till now. Yay!

[Dangerzone]

Do we even have information on what the Dynamic Campaign Engine is supposed to bring? 

I'm interested to know if it's going to be SP, or also multiplayer. Whether MP (if available) can be hosted with minimal maintenance, or whether it will require 'hands on' approach to keep things going.

I'm also interested to know if it's going to provide 'endless campaigns', like you play one, then get to the end, then go to the briefing, and then start a new mission which progresses (a bit like the 3rd party app we have now), or whether it will provide seamless/endless gameplay without the stopping, so it's like an endless mission where things just keep progressing. (Which would be brilliant for online MP gamplay). 

And how much control we will have over the content and direction as well. Whether it will be something that can be highly customisable by server admins, etc to add to it - or if it's a stand alone exclusive function. 

Because honestly, if it's not going to be MP that's endless (without the server having to cycle to another mission), but you have to finish the mission, then cycle to the next - I can't see how ED is going to do it better than an already out there dynamic campaign mission generator that's already available. 

When I first heard about the DCE - I was excited, but the more time has gone on, the more I'm becoming less optimistic. I was real excited about dynamic spawns as well, but ED have managed to avoid the one thing that I was hoping for the most with them (ability to spawn FARPS dynamically and be able to spawn on those), in order to complete what I (and many others) need and have been asking for years. This, plus what happened with RJ (author of overlordBot), not to mention some others that have dropped out along the way, has given me the impression that whoever's involved with the planning is a little more disconnected from the community and our needs to what I first gave credit, so I'm not as optimistic as I used to be that the DCE will actually fit our needs or expectations. 

I may be wrong (and I really hope I am) - I'm just lacking the level of confidence I once did that they're going to nail this out of the box, but it'll be more 'Early Access' and along the lines of what's already been made. I'm preparing myself that it is still years away (Vulkan has to come first IIRC??) - and then it may take another 5 years after release before it matures into something solid.

 

... Or maybe I'm just suffering from the Monday Blues. 

Edited October 14, 2024 by Dangerzone

[BigBorner]

No one ever said it’s Earth Years. On Mars everything is on track. 

[cfrag]

9 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Do we even have information on what the Dynamic Campaign Engine is supposed to bring? 

I hear that there are concepts of plans. Or have been. It's been some time...

[draconus]

Latest news on DC:

Earlier info:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/newsletters/5bf6ef59f8b97771ba0e0ac9904be8f7/

[BIGNEWY]

Testing is in progress, but this is a huge project and will take time. 

thank you 

[Gigafiga]

4 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Testing is in progress, but this is a huge project and will take time. 

thank you 

for curiosity, how many live units per mission are we talking about? what's the target numbers?