fixed F86 radar gunsight solution incorrect

[some1]

Another aircraft that fails the basic gunnery test.

 

It is not possible to hit a target using the radar sight, even a non evading one. All bullets fly behind the target.

 

I set up a mission with AI set to a constant, level, 3g turn. I followed the target with a stable tracking solution, zeroed closure rate, textbook conditions, yet despite that all bullets miss. 

 

Track attached.

 

86.trk

[Northstar98]

Is this sight a full RADAR computing sight with lead compensation, or is it just a gyro sight with automatic ranging updates provided by the RADAR? Because if it's the latter, wouldn't you have to put in some lead yourself? 

 

This also applies to your F-5E-3 thread and your MiG-21bis thread.

 

EDIT: It seems the sight does calculate lead based on the attackers G.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Northstar98

[Buzzles]

Yes, it's been broken now for 5 years:

 

Discussion in this thread, as the gunsight isn't off per-se, but the bullets are too slow:

 

[some1]

31 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

Is this sight a full RADAR computing sight with lead compensation, or is it just a gyro sight with automatic ranging updates provided by the RADAR? Because if it's the latter, wouldn't you have to put in some lead yourself? 

In a stable tracking situation like this you don't have to apply additional lead, even with WWII gyro gunsights not equipped with radar. The K-14 sights in DCS P47 and P51 work just fine in this mission. 

 

Now, taking a snapshot against a target travelling in a different plane of motion, moving across your scope, that's a different matter. 

[Northstar98]

Ahh okay, I edited my post as it seems the sight does compensate for lead based on your G, which if it's the same as the targets G (obviously in the same direction) as it is here, then yes, no additional lead should be required.

 

So yes, something is wrong with all of these gunsights.

 

10 minutes ago, Buzzles said:

Yes, it's been broken now for 5 years:

 

Discussion in this thread, as the gunsight isn't off per-se, but the bullets are too slow:

 

 

Interesting, but does this apply to the F-5E-3 and MiG-21bis too? As they all seem to have the same issue (links are above).

Edited April 10, 2021 by Northstar98

[some1]

I don't know, I think every aircraft is a unique case that has to be investigated, so I created several bug reports. I don't know if they use some common function provided by DCS SDK, or every developer has to make something himself from scratch (and then they forgot to readjust the sights if the weapon ballistic properties are modified). 

[Schmidtfire]

some1, thanks for taking time to report this!

One of the most important systems on the F-86F not working correctly for years.

Would anyone tolerate incorrect ACM modes on Hornet or Viper? On a gunfighter platform such as the Sabre it
is extremely important that the sight works as advertised.  

It drives me totally nuts that issues like this are left unresolved when there are lots of time over to create
new WWII propellers and other stuff.

ED PLEASE FIX, WE HAVE WAITED LONG ENOUGH
 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Schmidtfire

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 4/10/2021 at 8:47 AM, Schmidtfire said:

some1, thanks for taking time to report this!

One of the most important systems on the F-86F not working correctly for years.

Would anyone tolerate incorrect ACM modes on Hornet or Viper? On a gunfighter platform such as the Sabre it
is extremely important that the sight works as advertised.  

It drives me totally nuts that issues like this are left unresolved when there are lots of time over to create
new WWII propellers and other stuff.

ED PLEASE FIX, WE HAVE WAITED LONG ENOUGH
 

 

It's obscene how long this has taken. If this is the kind of attention gunfighters are due, WEW I have a hard time recommending the WWII side to newbies.

[nighthawk2174]

@BIGNEWYMay be worth making sure this is reported.

[Northstar98]

On 4/12/2021 at 5:40 AM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

It's obscene how long this has taken. If this is the kind of attention gunfighters are due, WEW I have a hard time recommending the WWII side to newbies.

 

Absolutely agreed.

[TAIPAN_]

Does anyone know if this got fixed?

It's been a while now..

[Reflected]

Wow, I originally reported the pipper being off 5 years ago, I completely forgot... I hope, as you guys said, it is because of the bullets being too slow, and when that bug is fixed we'll have accurate gunnery.

 

In the meantime I've gotten used to further leading my target, but that's just a workaround.

[darkman222]

Yes lets push the topic. The F86 is way too much fun on dogfight servers guns only against contemporary fighters. An accurate gunsight would be awesome.

[Wolf_ofthe_North]

As someone who plays about 20 hours a week dogfighting in the F-86, my hunch is that once the bullet issue is fixed the gunsight will work. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 8/6/2021 at 5:44 PM, Wolf_ofthe_North said:

As someone who plays about 20 hours a week dogfighting in the F-86, my hunch is that once the bullet issue is fixed the gunsight will work. 

Assuming that happens. It's been years and they refuse to fix it. We'll get someone here claiming it didn't make the fix this time round, but I'd like to know why it's been backburnered for this long.

 

Until they fix it, no ED modules for me, at all.

[Hobel]

Would like to buy it, but what s written here like this

[Miles Vorkosigan]

Buy it, well worth it.

[NineLine]

I'll give this a kick again, if it is indeed the overheating issue with the guns, then I hope that fixes both, will see where we are at on this.

[iFoxRomeo]

10 hours ago, NineLine said:

I'll give this a kick again, if it is indeed the overheating issue with the guns, then I hope that fixes both, will see where we are at on this.

My bet is, that the incorrect gunsight solution is connected to the slow bullets, which are still, since release, too slow.

[Machalot]

On 12/9/2021 at 9:16 AM, iFoxRomeo said:

My bet is, that the incorrect gunsight solution is connected to the slow bullets, which are still, since release, too slow.

Are the slow bullets acknowledged?

[Northstar98]

On 12/9/2021 at 5:16 PM, iFoxRomeo said:

My bet is, that the incorrect gunsight solution is connected to the slow bullets, which are still, since release, too slow.

AFAIK this also affects the F-5E and formerly, the JF-17

[some1]

It's unrelated to overheating, even the first burst from the guns goes way behind the target. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by some1

[avenger82]

On 12/12/2021 at 11:01 PM, Machalot said:

Are the slow bullets acknowledged?

Yes, but AFAIK nothing was done to fix it yet and the thread was closed...

Anyway, I doubt that if bullet speed will be corrected, it will fix F-86 gunsight solution. Maybe it will be a bit better , but these seem separate issues.

[Squiffy]

The bullet speed was updated to 870 or 890 as I recall. Better but not great. More importantly, the barrel warp is still way too high. You need to be able to edit the F-86.lua to change this. Knock the variables way down to near 1.0 to get more realistic distortion. Still not sure if this still works after 2.9 update. I am still on 2.7.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Squiffy

[NineLine]

Yes, overheating is the change I am looking for, its on my list to bump when the team gets back, I know you guys get tired of hearing the same thing, but I will do my best to see if its something someone can take some time to do.