Single Players: What would win you over to a multiplayer server?

[Dangerzone]

I've read that most DCS players prefer Single Player. I've also seen many posts from people who tried Multiplayer but, for various reasons, decided it wasn't for them and stuck with Single Player.

If that describes you, I’d like your input:

What would make you consider joining a DCS multiplayer server? Or, what would a multiplayer server need (or avoid) for you to try it?

For example:

A PvE campaign where you only play with friends you choose.

A community that carefully selects members to ensure maturity, or one that offers real human ATC 24/7.

Servers that automatically match you with players of similar skill for fair PvP.

Or do you simply prefer flying alone, with no interest in playing with others?

I’m curious whether players avoid Multiplayer just because they prefer flying solo, or because a suitable Multiplayer environment doesn’t exist for them.

[Don Rudi]

I for one am simply not interested in MP.
Speaking PvE:
I want to fly, when I have time, not when a server happens to be full.
I want to fly what (plane and mission) I want, not what is on the menu for some virtual squadron.

Speaking PvP:
I am in no mood to spawn, do a time consuming cold start only to be blown to pieces on the taxiway, by friend or foe.
And yes, my aged brain is simply too slow to compete with teens who spend all their time in front of screen.

In short, I simply don't miss anything in my SP world.

Edited 13 hours ago by Don Rudi
typo

[speed-of-heat]

Likely the first two would be closest… however, the reality is i have a life and a family, even though I’m retired and I play most days, turning up at a regular time just doesn’t work for me… which it does for most other people… I have little or no interest in PvP never have in any game.  

I’m introverted by nature and whilst I have friends and enjoy their company, but, I grew up gaming solo, and honestly have very little interest in gaming with others.

[MAXsenna]

Nothing.

I did enjoy that helicopter SAR server, and I dable into other servers from time to time. Not at all interested in joining any squads, because I fly whenever I feel like it, without constraints and commitments.

MP can be lots of fun. My first experiences were EF2K, some DI and Janes games over Kali, before IP was widely supported. Yeah, and FPSs like Doom, Descent, Nukem 3D, some Starwars etc. But that was way back in the 90s. There was a warbirds game that supported IP and only MP. The name escapes me, and was subscription based, so I gave that up very quickly. After the 90s I was a console user for 10+ years, and played a lot of MP with my X. But we had multiple TVs and consoles. Spent countless hours in MP on some PS3 game pleasing her I can't remember. Some FPS something.

I have nothing against MP, and I will probably eventually come back to it. But I have too much fun learning all the modules in SP.

Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Totally immune to MP. I have no friends, none of them plays flight sim, I play the game the way I want, at my own pace, enjoy my own win and failures. I have games which have great AI, and play those when I wish to be on my own. I don't want friendly fire on myself and on others

54 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

There was a warbirds game that supported IP and only MP. The name escapes me, and was subscription based

It was called Warbirds, irrc. Because I was there with a friend, and constantly get slaughtered. Then we moved on the Flanker 1.0 (Yes, I am this old)

http://www.totalsims.com/info_warbirds.php

Edited 11 hours ago by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Rudel_chw]

3 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Or do you simply prefer flying alone, with no interest in playing with others?

yes, this is my case, I enjoy learning each plane or helo, dcs is not a game on my case so no need for other players 

[Dragon1-1]

I want to play at my convenience, not when others have the time. MP is always a commitment (unless you play with total randoms, which I don't care for), with SP I can play or not, and nobody else will care. My at times unreliable internet connection (I'm on a radio link) also doesn't bother me, nor am I affected if someone else doesn't make it, or has connection problems. Playing with others just adds a whole other level of fuss that I'm unwilling to deal with. Plus, as a VR player, I don't have performance to spare, and MP is poorly optimized in DCS.

[AdrianL]

So what is missing from the original post is that people avoid the public servers.

A lot of people will host a server from their machine, for 2 or 3 friends, where they are free to play how they like. 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by AdrianL

[MAXsenna]

34 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

So what is missing from the original post is that people avoid the public servers.

A lot of people will host a server from their machine, for 2 or 3 friends, where they are free to play how they like. 

 

Fair point!  

 

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

It was called Warbirds, irrc. Because I was there with a friend, and constantly get slaughtered. Then we moved on the Flanker 1.0 (Yes, I am this old)

Ha! So the title was that simple? No wonder I couldn't remember it.  

[bies]

MP generating missions, like in other flight sims, even really old ones.

It should be like in other sims, where you can see a map with airfields and automatically generated missions to chose. Where you have route & nav points already in your nav computer/cardridge, you just set proper weapon suited your mission. Naturally cooperate with other elements of your flight. This equals great experience even in much technically worse sims then DCS.

Not a long-ass list of random airfields and aircrafts. Where you have to spawn not knowing where or why. Chosing some random weapon, flying to some random place, doing some random stuff, invent your mission by yourself in your head. Like every pilot is forced to be an air force general with detailed knowledge about the whole battlefield and air mission planner, which feels lika a chore, like a mission editor. Such random missions equals subpar experience and often close to no interaction with the world.

       

    

Edited 4 hours ago by bies

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I also avoid public servers for a variety of reasons - one of which being certain behaviours I have observed there (and have been subjected to) that I don't care to repeat.
AirQuake simply doesn't interest me, and loading entire SAM sites on a Huey to drop them off using scripts is a bit... err immersion breaking  

I have joined a few squadrons back in the day, and I have had a few of my own as well, but these days I fly SP with the occasional hop on a privately hosted mission with a friend of mine. That works just fine for me.

[draconus]

What puts me off MP?

• schedule and time dedication
• reliance on 3rd party apps like Discord or SRS
• poor or no briefing/mission plan (public servers)
• unrealistic mission settings and randomness of powers on both sides (public servers)
• DCS MP performance and visual weirdness (jumping/warping aircraft)
• no RL friends playing
• risk of meeting griefers, trolls and cheaters (public servers)

What I miss in SP?

• unpredictability and skills of human opponents
• much better interaction with wingman and other friendly flights
• more realistic comms between flights and services (ATC or JTAC)

[Lace]

I like the idea of a virtual squadron carrying out semi-realistic PvE missions, however, the main obstacle for me is the inability to commit to a particular mission push time, or to stay connected for several hours at a time.  Perhaps this is something to save for retirement, or at least until the children have moved on.  At the moment SP suits my needs, and the EDDCE will (hopefully) provide much of what I am looking for without relying on MP servers.  I also don't like the fact that some groups require additional software/apps like Discord or SRS, rather than just using the integrated comms.

I have zero interest in PvP 'Air-Quake' with unrealistic respawns, instant rearming, air starts, etc.

[Ornithopter]

4 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

I also avoid public servers for a variety of reasons - one of which being certain behaviours I have observed there (and have been subjected to) that I don't care to repeat.
AirQuake simply doesn't interest me, and loading entire SAM sites on a Huey to drop them off using scripts is a bit... err immersion breaking  

I have joined a few squadrons back in the day, and I have had a few of my own as well, but these days I fly SP with the occasional hop on a privately hosted mission with a friend of mine. That works just fine for me.

 

3 hours ago, draconus said:

What puts me off MP?

• schedule and time dedication
• reliance on 3rd party apps like Discord or SRS
• poor or no briefing/mission plan (public servers)
• unrealistic mission settings and randomness of powers on both sides (public servers)
• DCS MP performance and visual weirdness (jumping/warping aircraft)
• no RL friends playing
• risk of meeting griefers, trolls and cheaters (public servers)

What I miss in SP?

• unpredictability and skills of human opponents
• much better interaction with wingman and other friendly flights
• more realistic comms between flights and services (ATC or JTAC)

Yes, all of the above.

We all know that in a workplace, or in any social club, there are going to be people who grate on you.   That's just life.  Generally its the founders of the Cult Squad will set the tone for the experience that follows.

I've been a member a few squads over the years and it was always a mixed bag.  I'm not currently in any squad or doing any MP.  Inevitably, the time comes when I'm no longer willing to tolerate certain nonsense:  For example, there will always be the guy who interjects religion into every conversation;  Or Politics.  It's inevitable that I'll come to resent the "CO" who reminds me of Colonel Lard, or his XO, Barney Fife.  I'm no longer willing to tolerate a RIO that giggles like Rosco P. Coltrane or have Frank Burns as my wingman;  There will inevitably be the conspiracy theorist (such as Flouride, Elvis, Pandemic, etc), or the ideological nutcase.  I kid you not,  in one group I had to sit through a "moment of silence" for Manfred Von Richtofen, only to realize that I hadn't muted my microphone and they all heard me laughing my butt off at such ridiculous BS.  This is a game, and I couldn't believe they were serious.  I've encountered every type of meme warrior, troll, simpleton, knuckdragging, mouth-breathing fool that never matured past the 7th grade.  I've sat through 2 hour long "Milsim" briefings that by the time it came around to actually flying I was already on my 6th beer, and to my amusement performed quite well.  Oh, and I should add that racism was and is an immediate deal-breaker for me, but I've unfortunately seen far too many willing to go down that path.  I've been told that I'm "too sensitive", but I don't think so.  I don't miss any of this.

So that's the downside.

On the positive side, I have learned so much from others and become such a better virtual pilot than I could have managed all by myself.  My very best times in flight sims and other games were in Multiplayer.

I would join a squad in a heartbeat if I could find the right group of people.  I doubt that's likely at this point, but I keep my eyes open for opportunities and an open mind.

If someone is new to DCS, or any other complicated simulation, I would highly reccomend joining a squad.  They show you the ropes.  There is nothing quite as rewarding as flying with and against real people.  If you are with the right group (or even a bunch of jerks who know what they're doing) you might be surprised at how skilled you can actually become.  It's worth experiencing and if you reach the point where you don't like it any more, you can always tell them to FO and just quit.

Edited 5 hours ago by Ornithopter

[Nealius]

Quote

What would win you over to a multiplayer server?

Same thing that would win me over in SP. PvE only with AI that doesn't cheat in physics or sensors.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

48 minutes ago, Ornithopter said:

I would join a squad in a heartbeat if I could find the right group of people.

Absolutely, and I think that counts for a LOT of people. Problem is, finding those people: it's not just a matter of being in the same time zone, but also having similar enough time schedules, and ways you'd like to fly and types of missions you prefer - and in the end the personalities of the people need to be similar too, or it will never last.

[silverdevil]

9 hours ago, Don Rudi said:

I am in no mood to spawn, do a time consuming cold start only to be blown to pieces on the taxiway, by friend or foe.

lol. been there, done that.

i am solely an SP user. as many say, squads are great, but the time put in to getting all the schedules together is a hindrance. i am the member of a squad. they host a PvE server. i play the same mission locally. they put a lot of time into it and it is quite fun.  

[twistking]

I think all major points have already been made, but there is another slightly more subtle argument, that i call the penny pusher problem:

Public PvP in supposedly deep tactical games can feel like coin pushers: You can approach the game with skill and planning, but the tactical outcome is determined less by your individual input and more by the unpredictable cascade of random strangers piling in. Each round looks the same on the surface, yet wildly different results occur depending on who happens to show up and how they collide. Without roleplay, or at least shared intent, the illusion of a tactical layer collapses into arbitrary social randomness. Players might believe their actions are decisive, while in reality their agency is constantly undercut by uncontrollable and completely opaque variables. That kind of randomness can work in Quake, where chaos is the point and individual skill shines through nevertheless, but in a game that sells itself on tactical depth and interconnected systems it creates frustration imho, because what should feel like a battle of strategy ends up feeling like a chance based arcade machine.

This randomness is arbitrary and opaque: It creates noise rather than depth. Therefore it should not be mistaken for the kind of randomness that fuels replayability in well designed dynamic scenarios (dynamic campaign?!) where variation emerges from clear rules and systemic design. In those scenarios, even losing can be satisfying, because players can see how their choices interacted with the rules.

PS: I think the penny pusher problem captures the dilemma where public PvP inevitably drifts toward airquake, despite mechanics that on the surface aim to promote coordination and tactical play.

Edited 2 hours ago by twistking

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 hour ago, twistking said:

depending on who happens to show up and how they collide

I see what you did there! 

[Lace]

@twistking Very well said.  I'd add that with the best intentions, real-world tactics designed to keep pilots alive and to prevent the loss of expensive toys just doesn't translate well to a 'game' with no real disincentive for death or loss of asset.  Perhaps if each online player had one 'life' per week (or even month) it would encourage more realistic tactics and execution of missions, rather than just Leeroy*-ing into the furball every time.  If people want realism, then dead should mean dead.

 

[Ornithopter]

Many of you are talking about the chaos of "open" servers, and you make fair points.  In the groups I am familiar with in DCS, they were the mostly the opposite, with individuals such as myself sometimes taking off the uniform of the squad to dabble on the open servers.  The squad nights themselves were closed members-only servers with missions and scenarios designed by veritable expert Mission Makers.  During "mission nights", the paradigm was definitely Dead Is Dead.  So your stupid wingman gets you killed, and well, goodnight guys, see you next week.   These were very hardcore groups that made such an effort to do things "realistically" that, for a computer game, it could border on the absurd at times.  I wanted realism to a point, but it's not a second career.  For some people, I suspect that's exactly what they want.  While boring as hell at times, honestly, that is the environment where you really learn your stuff, and hence why I went the Milsim route in the first place...to get better.

The good news, at least I think, is there are much more casual groups out there.

As far as open servers, if you get a group of half a dozen people together that know what they're doing, including an organic GCI person, you can just go in there and kick the living daylights out of the whole lot of them.  It's very fun.  As an independent operator though, I wouldn't have a clue how to get on an Open server and find wingmen or crewmembers.  Maybe that just comes down to extroverts vs introverts but thats one reason why it can be really beneficial joining a familiar squad vs just showing up and trying to find friends for a session.  Your choices are generally Larry, Curly, or Moe.

There are a lot of different possibilities in MP.

Edited 26 minutes ago by Ornithopter

[TheFreshPrince]

I love MP PVP as it's much more fun with real people. "AI" just doesn't offer any challenge. Only thing putting me off is the massive problems with performance, desync and imbalances between red- and bluefor. Without any modern redfor aircraft this imbalance will just increase more and more.

[twistking]

14 minutes ago, Ornithopter said:

As far as open servers, if you get a group of half a dozen people together that know what they're doing, including an organic GCI person, you can just go in there and kick the living daylights out of the whole lot of them.  It's very fun.

Would not give me any feeling of accomplishment. To an organized group those random human opponents are less challenging and less realistic than the otherwise very challenged DCS AI.

Edited 1 hour ago by twistking

[John Galt]

I'm just not very good at this and probably never will be. The last thing I want to do is screw it up for others cause I can't do my job.

If I get shot down or fly into the side of a mountain, I laugh at myself for being a dumbass and start over.

[Ornithopter]

6 minutes ago, John Galt said:

I'm just not very good at this and probably never will be. The last thing I want to do is screw it up for others cause I can't do my job.

If I get shot down or fly into the side of a mountain, I laugh at myself for being a dumbass and start over.

Well, you know what they say:  "Get Good!"  FWIW, I used to feel I was pretty skilled in DCS, but that was a long time ago.  Nowadays, I don't think I would be worth a damn.  It would take a lot of work for me to get back to the level where I think Multiplayer would be a possibilty.  Maybe I still have enough in me to be the guy that flies a boring racetrack pattern in a C-130 tanker someday, on autopilot of course.  There are options.