Leaderboard

@MAESTR0 I have learned today, that another 3rd party has instructed @OnReTech to remove parts of the Sïnai map that was already delivered to us customers, not even mentioned in the changelog, except for a "map size change". Now, for some reason or another, I come to the conclusion that the 3rd party mentioned has to be UGRA Media, Occam's and all. To come in front of this. Would you care to explain to us customers, why such action has been taken by UGRA Media? Have you even considered that these maps can co-exist, even if you both include the complete Israel? It could actually be a win-win for both, as it could enable DLC campaign creators to include both maps in their campaigns. With all the drama in the past months, I don't think the community neither needed or deserved this. Please reconsider. Let @OnReTech go North, while you guys head down South. Please don't let something this stupid tarnish your reputation and excellent work. I was really looking forward to your next project, whatever it is. Now, in case I'm beeing wrong here, you have my most sincere apology. Cheers!

Have a nice day, friends. We see your indignation about the northern part of Israel in our map. Yes, this part of the map was removed from the build intentionally. This was the demand of a third party, in order to quickly resolve the conflict, it was decided to do just that. We are very sorry about what happened and apologize for the fact that this was not covered in advance. But the dialogue continues, the data was not been completely removed, but only been excluded for this build. We are doing everything possible to approve the return of northern Israel in the nearest upcoming update. Do not be so categorical and hasty in your conclusions. We can't always do what we want, sometimes we have to do what we are required to do. It is obvious that our goal cannot be "to make the map worse".

Dear Ugra media, why did you demand that this area be removed from the Sinai map? I can state with a high level of confidence that exactly zero people decided against buying the Syria map based on this area being present on the Sinai map. This demand will likely have the opposite effect of what you intend - as people will potentially avoid purchasing your products based on your newly acquired reputation for damaging other third party products. Northern Israel/Lebanon/Sea of Galilee area being present in the Sinai map in no way hurts the Syria map, and will not cause people to choose one or the other.

I think this situation will help create some conditions and rules, including testing and communication between third-party developers and ED. I believe that any errors and their corrections make the product better! While we will return everything to its place, please evaluate the new objects and locations, new airfields, etc. Our team tried to make the module more interesting and useful in creating missions and free flights. PS: since the return of data will take a little time, we will also fix some bugs that have already been noticed. We are doing this immediately. Thank you for your understanding again!

Dear OnReTech, I've taken a long break from DCS over the past few years due to being busy with life and more pressing issues. I returned in late May, and was very optimistic about recent developments (launch of the F4, Chinook etc.,). The June 5th update was fantastic, was re-acquiring old skills, developing new ones and slowly getting ready to get into the production of more videos, however unfortunately update 2.9.6.57650 killed my VR performance to the point that the game was unplayable, the hotfix 2.9.6.58056 made things worse, and I am sorry to report the latest update has screwed the pooch even further to the point that VR is a migraine inducing slideshow. The above is not your problem, and I generally let these things wash over my head, wait for the next update in the hope that things will improve. I've been playing DCS for long enough to know that some updates can kill performance for some users, while improving it for others, this all depends on the myriad combinations of hardware, so I am generally patient in this regard. Allow me to preface the following by saying that I loved this map, probably more than any other map in DCS. I loved the map for its versatility and the ability to set it in either an historic or modern phase of the 3 ring military industrial circus we call the Middle East. What I do neither patiently accept nor forgive is the behaviour of your company in applying this update. This is unprofessional at every level for the following reasons: You did not consider reaching out to your clients prior to the update to inform them of the possibility of a detrimental change. You did not consider that it would be wise to inform current and prospective clients of the reason for this change. Pleas do not hide behind excuses such as 'private discussions' or 'legal pressure', these pale into insignificance compared to your rapidly depleting consumer goodwill and trust. We are your customers and we have a right to know, and a right to be part of the process prior to reaching a decision that removes one third of the value of the product we purchased. Speaking of product value, your map only has 3 uses for military flight sim players: 1: Policing operations in the West Bank. 2: Military operations in and around the Gaza Strip. 3: Historic Arab/Israeli conflicts. Removing the north of Israel removes any way of simulating those historic Arab/Israeli conflicts in any real or complete sense. The ability to repel Syrian attacks over the Golan is now defunct, what are you defending? An empty blank space, nothing of value or consequence. You have left the mission planner/server owner with some policing operations and a lob sided Gaza turkey shoot, meanwhile the Egyptian side is left to training missions and pyramid gazing. Additionally you added all sorts of eye candy, this is great, but not while the navigation aids are partially and in some cases not functioning, we fly past or maybe bomb the eye candy a few times while yelling 'kewlll', but we consistently curse the fact that we can't get our F16 back to our home base without navigating via the stars like Bedouin. As for the F35 parking spaces, don't get me started, I hope to be alive for the 2050 and beyond video, but I've run the engine hard and have to be realistic regarding these things. Finally there's your response. It may have not broken forum rules, but it was unprofessional to an inexcusable degree. First the greeting, we are not your friends, we are your clients, it's quite obvious from your actions and indeed your first communication that you have failed to recognise this distinction. Then you go on to explain, without any evidence, that in order to resolve a conflict quickly you just deleted a very important portion of the product we purchased. You do not explain with whom and why this dispute had arose, we're just supposed to trust you on this. Of course, the implication we're supposed to draw is that Urga Media put legal pressure on you to sabotage our product, we're supposed to pack up our trebuchets and march over to besiege their part of the forum, this should not wash with us, because.....YOU MADE THE DECISION AND YOU NEUTERED OUR PRODUCT! Then you admonish us not to be 'hasty' nor draw 'categorical' conclusions, like somehow we've got it all wrong, that somehow we have made some terrible mistake, and you are the victim of our undeserved wrath, in business there are times for everything, even for passive aggressive indignation, and indeed for grovelling, you have misread the room, this is not the time for the former! I hope the above issues with your statement is a result of the inaccuracies of Google Translate or perhaps a lack of fluency in English, and not the intention of your message, both are forgivable, but not in public relations, this is why we employ translators or engage someone with a high degree of expertise in a language before posting messages that could be critical to the survival of our business. As you have made the decisions it is up to you to resolve them to the satisfaction of your customer base, or face the commercial consequences. Thank you, Laobi To the Moderators: It is not my intention to inflame the situation, just to make my displeasure with this event unequivocally clear. I appreciate all the hard work you guys do and know it is often a thankless task. I do not believe I have broken the forum rules here, but if I have sailed too close to the wind please remove it, as always, your house, your rules, I will post this elsewhere without taking offence.

Dear friends and pilots. On behalf of our company, we apologize for this error. The removal of this part of the map was an internal error and misunderstanding. We will soon return everything to its place before the early access version (Northern part of the map). Having checked everything again beforehand. Thank you for your understanding, we really value the opinion of users, and have done everything possible to solve this problem. Thanks again for your understanding.

Solution: Let Ugra include South Israel in Siria map Let ORT include North Israel in Sinaí map

Absolutely deplorable behavior by all three parties involved. What is going with DCS this year?

OneReTech, I and many others, believe that the decision to remove a large area of detail from the map, was done in poor taste and without any prior warning to us. The rationale and logic behind this decision was never communicated broadly or at all. This decision, downgrade, made me lose a lot of faith in you as a new developer. A year without updates and with silence, ok, fine. But to then come out with your first update and degrade the map? I cannot in good conscience approve of this behavior. If the concern in the back of your mind was to not interfere with another map maker doing an overlapping area, then this should’ve been considered before EA release. Not thought of and removed afterwards. Please communicate to us, and tell us why this was done, because many are upset and this is not right. thank you, the GUCC.

"This was the demand of a third party, in order to quickly resolve the conflict, it was decided to do just that." May I ask why do you care about another 3rd party's demand around your own product?

So Ugra complained about map encroachment a year after the fact, directly to OnReTech, and ORT removed content from the map immediately with no communication with customers. And throughout all of this nobody spoke to the company that actually owns and runs the game or thought that this was a completely terrible idea? Does this game feel like a bad joke to anyone else at times?

We will negotiate to make it faster than the next patch.

Thank you for your response! Now, Eagle Dynamics, please solve this dispute as quickly as possible. Like written above. The complete Israel can co-exist in both maps, as they serve different purposes. We might even see DLC campaigns in the future that REQUIRES BOTH maps, which could become a win-win. My opinion of UGRA does took a hit. Maybe we should all head over to that forum to voice our opinions and disappointment. While in all fearness I was sort of worried that something like this would happen, as users were asking these exact questions when Sinaï was announced, and ED could have been in front of this. My own personal opinion of course. Cheers all, and let's hope this will be solved. Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

This particular update had been tested by ED for several weeks, and no one noticed that something is missing until the proverbial substance hit the fan?

Surely if they haven't used Ugra Media's assets then the demand is baseless. Remove it or else what exactly? Anyway, you pay your money and then you are left out in the cold. Don't buy the Ugra Media maps either then I say. Sick of this crap.

Honestly, If Israel doesn't fully return the map is useless for me, and I want a refund because this is not what I have paid for. I don't care if it is in Syria and Israel. I have both maps, but Sinai was more interesting for me. Until today. All that drama happening around DCS and it's 3rd parties saddens me and completely destroys my trust in 3rd parties. Sad times for DCS, even though it is getting such cool models.

There is nothing hasty or categorical about the community response when the removal of the area was intentional yet left out of the patch notes. Now if there was an excuse that somehow the patch notes were already transported on a stone slab in an armoured vehicle using an unkown route to ED, then you could have at least made a forum posts informing the community. That would have saved a lot of the rightfully bad feelings that ensued. Not all of them, but a lot, I'm sure.

Please hold third party developers to the same standard. I take offense at blanket statement that all our feelings and responses are categorical and hasty.

I gotta say Its kinda weird for a publisher to NOT know what he is going to publish Very saddened by this absolutely terrible PR blunder of removing what we have already paid for

@OnReTech Yep, absolute joke... I bought this map for a complete Israel, and have designed missions al over the northern part on the border of Syria and Lebanon. My entire mission/campaign is ruined now... This is a terrible decision and must be reversed!!! Here is the map of my mission area of ops. Took me over 3 months to build this mission for multiplayer for my squad using DML. Now its ruined. Units moved along roads dynamically trying to retake cities, artillery fired at towns, helicopters dropped troops in towns. None of this works now as DML looked at the terrain for its triggers.

You have the audacity to call it indignation when you remove something that has been paid and utilized for a whole year now? Because another 3rd Party Dev complained... yeah way to stand up for yourselves and your consumers, you're just as cheap as the next guy and have the audacity to come after the consumer when you took a 0 communication approach. Get off your high horse, you're working a game that you're helping to push into the grave with PR like this. Laughable joke, poor executive leadership, get a spine next time another 3rd party Dev complains and communicate with your consumers. Indignation. @NineLinewhen we spoke at Expo you told me that there was a promising update for Sinai, i understand yall couldnt have anticipated this but come on. Thats a kick in the chin man

If that's true, I think it would be fair that people demanding refund for Sinai will be paid from Ugra's profits.

You know, we keep telling you guys to stop releasing things on Friday because it deletes people's weekends whenever anything goes wrong. Once again, there are a series of very good reasons why "Patch Tuesday" is an industry standard.

Putting in for my refund enough is enough. Its a joke.

Dear all, With the next DCS: AH-64D update, we will be releasing the RMAP mode for the Fire Control Radar (FCR). Due to illness and time limitations, I was unable to create an instruction video for it. My apologies, as it's a very interesting features that a lot of time has gone into. In the meantime, please find attached a section of the DCS: AH-64D Guide pertaining to this new feature. Kind regards, Wags DCS AH-64D FCR RMAP Mode.pdf

If that part of the map that had detail removed was because of contractual stuff it IS ED’s failure to know what was in Ugra’s contract when negotiating this maps contract. Ironically Ugra expanded the Syria map south AFTER Sinai was released. I also don’t see how Sinai having that part of the map in high detail would take away from Syria sales even if it eventually had a few airbases added. One map goes deep to the north the other to the south. And IIRC when originally release it was mentioned that some airfields in the now low detail area would likely be added (I may not be remembering correctly). at the end of the day it’s another communication failure in the DCS ecosystem that frustrates me the most and it’s another example of me losing faith in the ED and 3rd party ecosystem.

After a YEAR with no updates to this map, they finally put one out and completely stay quiet on the fact they gave with one hand and took away the other. To be honest, I thought the northern part of the map was going to be getting MORE work as I felt it was the weakest part of the map and I enjoy flying in that area due to present conflict in the area. The Syria map already did a much better job of this area and I hoped the Sinai map would be improved here, not REMOVED. It's starting to become a real gamble investing in these maps lately. This needs to be resolved immediately or refunds need to be issued. I can't believe in all of the years I've been with DCS 2024 is the first year I actually asked for a refund and it may now be twice. Keeping this completely secret until customers "noticed" is just disgraceful.

I just don't know any more. Is like ED, third partys, moderators and the 'you just got what you paid for' crew are actively bulling us out of participating in the early access process. If this is not soveld via hotfix within a week I'm asking for a refund. Enough with this jocke.

Please review your post. ED is selling to the public. That implies you are responsible. It is about time you take quality more serious.

Dear OnReTech, After today’s download, I am upset to find that detailed areas have been removed in Northern Israel. I don’t see any reason to remove detailed areas that were previously available. Nineline mentioned on the ED General discord channel that this may have take place to “not step” on Ugra Medias toes. Well, I will “step on both your toes” and stop recommending Sinai and Syria alike until the detailed map areas come back. They were integral to my game play and wouldn’t buy either Sinai or Syria without them. I use both Sinai and Syria together extensively as my campaigns utilize both maps. I strongly believe we are better together and that both maps will see more units if OnReTech and Ugra Media work together.

No excuse mate, Peoples money that they paid for has been removed. Its not even in the patch notes.......... Unprofessional.

In light of fairness will Ugra Media be deleting all content in Normandy 2 that trespasses into the boarders of The Channel map?

Why was this done? Airfields such as Ramat David are important even for missions involving the Sinai peninsula. For example aircraft based there took part in the opening raids for the 6 day war. Please put the detail back in.

That would be the best solution, benefiting everyone!

Please don't defend an exceedingly poor move by the dev.

I can't see why 2 companies depicting the same region with their own interpretation of geodatas in 2 distincts products could become a legal issue. I smell BS.

Wow, DCS is not shining these days...

This is really disappointing. First RB, now this. ED get your house in order please. We trust you when we buy these modules , and that trust is at an all time low.

It's a shame....please restore the North of Israel...we paid for it

To the guys of OnReTech. Do yourself a favour and claim that there was some mistake being made and immediately resolve this issue and you might have the chance to keep some small piece of trust with your customers. After that you better deliver some serious content in order to make up for this.

Редактор маршрута на карте F10 (доступно в версии DCS 2.9.7.58923 от 09.08.2024) Редактор маршрута на карте реального времени (вид F10) позволит вам создать свой собственный маршрут полёта в мультиплеере, либо отредактировать текущий перед тем как оказаться в кабине ЛА. Расположение иконки на верхнем тулбаре карты F10 в сетевой игре Размещение иконки на этапе Выбора Роли, и внешний вид окна Окно редактора маршрута содержит почти те же поля ввода, что и в редакторе миссии при создании маршрута, с которыми вы уже знакомы. В поле ППМ выберите номер Поворотного Пункта Маршрута с которым хотите работать. Ниже, вы можете присвоить ему уникальное Имя, задать Высоту относительно уровня моря (барометрическая высота) или поверхности (высота по радиовысотомеру ЛА). Еще ниже, вам потребуется задать время над точкой (время прибытия на точку). Скорость будет рассчитана автоматически. Кнопки Добавить, Изменить и Удалить работают соответственно если вы хотите добавить новую точку после текущей, отредактировать текущую или удалить её. При добавлении, вам надо будет указать мышкой точку на карте, которую надо добавить в маршрут. Вы можете сохранить созданный маршрут в виде пресета для последующего использования – для этого нажмите кнопку Сохранить. Все пресеты хранятся в пользовательской папке Saved Games\DCS\Config\RouteToolPresets в виде .lua файлов для каждой из карт (террейнов). Обратите внимание, что пользовательская папка Saved Games на компьютерах с русской локализацией видна в эксплорере Windows как «Сохраненные игры». Вы можете обмениваться файлами пресетов с напарниками. После создания маршрута, и активировав галочку «Использовать при следующем респауне» вы перенесёте созданный маршрут в память навигации выбранного вами ЛА. Как только вы окажетесь в кабине самолёта, маршрут будет активирован в бортовом компьютере навигационной системы ЛА. Эта схема работает в том числе и для самолётов комплекта Горячие Скалы 2024. Следует понимать, что если вы используете созданный в этом редакторе маршрут, то он естественно заменит собой полётное задание, сформированное сервером по условиям миссии. Вы, также, не сможете отредактировать маршрут непосредственно в симуляции, т.е. после того, как вы оказались в кабине ЛА. Это возможно только перед респауном! Дополнительно, вы можете использовать редактор маршрута на игровых слотах, не относящихся к воздушным средствам. Например, в слотах наблюдателей или тактических командиров для создания пресета, и обмена им с другими пользователями. И последнее, редактор маршрута не изменяет заданные маршруты в самой миссии. Он создаёт маршрут, который работает только непосредственно перед посадкой в ЛА и востребован в случаях, когда полётное задание или маршрут полёта в серверной миссии по умолчанию вас не устраивает по каким-то соображениям.

Will there be the posibility for a refund?

Adding my voice to this thread, I'm extremely disappointed by all of this. It's a very important part of the map and I hope that it is returned in the next update.

Absolutely best solution! Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

Well looking at this with eyes open wide and factual, we know the only 2 3rd part devs with maps that cross into each others areas are Syria and Sinia, both have lived side by side for 1 year without issue. My questions would be to ED who own the game and publish these 2 maps for both 3rd parties and sell them to us and take a cut. How did you not know about this, was you informed that there was a request to remove the part of Sinai that was removed in this update. (it appears you did not know) Why were you not informed, I would have thought it would be in the best interests of all involved that this would have been discussed with ED first and that ED would be a part of the decision process or resolution process to sort this out. Why has the 3rd party map dev requested this part of another company's map be removed now 1 year later, what is the issue that they have with this area being in a map, I doubt very much that it does not impact on the sales of Syria and why has it taken 1 year for this to happen. ED how can you stop this happing again ??, what will you put in place to stop this happing

Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only. 2 Kings 17:18 It is very sad. I've been wanting to buy Sinai very much, mainly because it had all of Israel. But this really takes away my trust and confidence. I'm glad I haven't bought it yet. I truly do hope this change is reversed. I really don't see how it could not be. But alas, what's next? Will Judah disappear also once Babylon... er, Iraq comes out?

Regardless of what circumstances may have lead to these things happening, this is NOT a good look for DCS, ED and certainly not OnReTech. At this point, I really don't know how OnReTech plans to regain the trust of its customers. After all the disaster surrounding this map, I don't see anyone buying another product from this developer. If one were malicious, one could describe such actions as shady. There has not even been any form of communication on this topic. No words! @OnReTech I am not asking for clarification, I am demanding clarification. The cup is slowly overflowing when it comes to certain things in and around DCS. At this point it is simply damaging the brand as such. Thank you.

Just waiting for the inevitable poor soul to post something like this, "Just got back from a long break away from DCS, can't wait to fly some missions in northern Israel in my F-15E on Sinai!" Please OnReTech. Don't let this happen to your customers!

I'm very keen to assist with EA - but the pure lack of communication on this one is really remarkable, as for just deleating content that was there that alot of people have already built missions around is plain wrong. I can honestly say i would never buy another OnReTech EA product, not due to quality but purely down to the unnacceptable lack of communication when it can be months on end before something is even replied to, or not at all. In addition to this, why are we still missing 80%+ of the real world navigation aids - with gen 3 aircraft being so popular, it is appalling that despite repeated requests it is neither acknowledged or done - a year on and even at new Airfields that have been added - very, very poor.

IF its removed this is certainly not what i paid for you taking the P ? Sorry its disgusting. You should be ashamed.