fixed The Mirage F1 cockpit is so dark! Hope it improves

[huchanronaa]

I don't know if it's really that dark in a real Mrage F1 cockpit, but it's a game, it's a pain to play if it's too dark

[chichowalker]

Real cockpit was as replicated by Aerges. I know its dark but its very very close to real one!!!!

Edited July 25, 2022 by chichowalker

[frumpy]

4 minutes ago, chichowalker said:

Real cockpit was as replicated by Aerges. I know its dark but its very very close to real one!!!!

 

Comparing darkness and measurements... I like your post, but today strawberries are on sale!

[huchanronaa]

9分钟前，chichowalker说：

Real cockpit was as replicated by Aerges. I know its dark but its very very close to real one!!!!

 

It's okay to be so dark in a real cockpit, but don't forget that we're driving on a computer screen, which is different from the human eye's vision

I said :it's a game, it's a pain to play if it's too dark

Edited July 25, 2022 by huchanronaa

[AdrianL]

Already threads about this 

 

And it has been acknowledged and will be adjusted. There is also a mod that changes the buttons to white as a interim fix (see linked thread)

[Hiob]

24 minutes ago, chichowalker said:

Real cockpit was as replicated by Aerges. I know its dark but its very very close to real one!!!!

 

You are aware, that the brightness and contrast of the cockpit is very dependend on monitor settings, ingame gamma settings, light sources and so on and so forth. Being black/dark in reality doesn't make it a good design decision for a computer simulation. Even more so, since the colour doesn't add to the flying experience.

9 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

Already threads about this 

 

And it has been acknowledged and will be adjusted. There is also a mod that changes the buttons to white as a interim fix (see linked thread)

Also, this!

[huchanronaa]

I'm surprised that the R&D team didn't actively discover the fact that the cockpit was too dark during more than a year of research and development,
This is the item that should be listed as the top priority for improvement, otherwise many people will return it immediately after finding such  so dark cockpit after purchasing the module on Steam.

Edited July 25, 2022 by huchanronaa

[huchanronaa]

The quality of such a dark cockpit is sorry for her price

[Hiob]

Have you checked your Monitor settings? Software and Hardware?

I mean, yes it is pretty dark and I don't like it either, but I don't think it is "unplayable" bad. Also it is acknowledged and will be adressed, therefore I don't see the need for complaining too much!

Edit: Only thing I needed to do in order to work around the issue was to increase gamma and brightness a notch.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Hiob

[huchanronaa]

18分钟前，Hiob说：

Have you checked your Monitor settings? Software and Hardware?

I mean, yes it is pretty dark and I don't like it either, but I don't think it is "unplayable" bad. Also it is acknowledged and will be adressed, therefore I don't see the need for complaining too much!

Edit: Only thing I needed to do in order to work around the issue was to increase gamma and brightness a notch.

 

Yes this too dark cockpit works, it's just a pain to use

Doesn't a cockpit that needs a notch up in gamma and brightness just highlight the problem of an overly dark cockpit?
And the R&D team didn't find this problem that could lead to a large number of returns before the module was released. Shouldn't they accept public criticism?

Edited July 25, 2022 by huchanronaa

[gzj3401]

Yeah, it's a small issue, but it does need to be adjusted. It makes me want to escape every time I sit in, just like a black hole.

[gzj3401]

Talking about why the developers didn't find this issue, maybe they all play the game with high gamma setting? who knows...

[Padinn]

It looks great on my qd oled which I used a hardware color calibration for. My guess is because its dark overall the IPS and TN panels most people use are washing it out. My gamma is set to 2.2 ingame.

[=475FG= Dawger]

It isn't that the cockpit is too dark. Its the lighting in DCS that is FUBAR.

Aerges may have to fudge something.

I just turn all the lights up.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Talking about devs didn't find "the issue", perhaps the thing is just representing how the real deal is (pretty damn PITCH BLACK, as all French cockpits actually are) is no ISSUE.

What Aerges is "fixing" now is people not liking how it is in real life, don't get yourselves fooled.

 

AND, not only Aerges have said "a fix" is coming (though I wouldn't call that a "fix"), in latest RedKite's tutorial the cockpit IS ALREADY LIGHTER. Pretty sure in the next patch that AESTHETICAL CHANGE is coming so people complains (and I'm thinking a different word here…) are FIXED . People's attitude needs fixing, real life features doesn't .

 

And yeah, by the way it's not that bad, I'm not playing specially high gamma (my screen is correctly set anyhow, not in DCS, everywhere) and contrast is just fine, it's not by chance critical controls are painted in red and black stripped yellow so you see them right away against black cockpit. Anyhow blame Dassault for their standards, not Aerges for replicating what happens in the real thing. Anyhow, ED's not going to """"fix"""" something which is fine right now and will change anyway the minute we got Vulkan and new shaders… just saying as so many people boasts a so short memory in what is probably going to happen in a not so distant future.

[Baco]

why are developers and fans so stubborn? its NOT practical its not useful it does NOT add to immersion to NOT see the cockpit switches in a clickable SIM.

Geez, how hard is it to understand? I bet real pilots see in 3D and can tell where a switch IS, in a 2D monitor its harder. Simple as that.

 

Is it going to change in the next update or further down? (Thanks).

[Rhinozherous]

6 minutes ago, Baco said:

why are developers and fans so stubborn? its NOT practical its not useful it does NOT add to immersion to NOT see the cockpit switches in a clickable SIM.

Geez, how hard is it to understand? I bet real pilots see in 3D and can tell where a switch IS, in a 2D monitor its harder. Simple as that.

 

Is it going to change in the next update or further down? (Thanks).

You are absolutely right! +1

There is also the fact that you can touch and feel knobs and switches in real life! This makes it easier in RL to find and operate switches in a dark cockpit. In a sim we only have visuals. 

[Giskvoosk]

That is what would happen when you assign semi-metallic texture to most part of the cockpit including painted parts, which aren't supposed to be handled like this. A sign of lacking fundamental understanding of texturing from the devs. The combination of base color in black and metallic esque is what makes it dark. Furthermore the fact that AO maps aren't well baked either, only worsens the situation.

[MAXsenna]

I believe it's a lighting issue as well. Using the flashlight or other lights doesn't help at all. Even when it's dark outside. They've said they will fix it though, so I have hope!

[Flappie]

11 hours ago, Baco said:

why are developers and fans so stubborn?

...

Geez, how hard is it to understand?

Why being so angry and condescending?

Aerges have already said they WILL do something about the F1 dark cocpkit:

Quote

WIP:

...

Cockpit panels texture overhaul (dark cockpit) due to game lighting.

Source: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/253872-mirage-f1-project-update/?do=findComment&comment=5020721

Happy?

[Baco]

4 hours ago, Flappie said:

Why being so angry and condescending?

Aerges have already said they WILL do something about the F1 dark cocpkit:

Source: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/253872-mirage-f1-project-update/?do=findComment&comment=5020721

Happy?

Very much. Thank you. Very, very appreciated.

Sorry guys for being so rude, but you have to listen to peoples opinions without trashing them. I know, we all know, what it feels like to have your air force plane done right in this very hi standard sim. I really appreciate it and value. one or two people might complain for nothing, but if you see quite a bunch of old pilots telling you the same thing, do not dismiss it so fast.

 

Really a huge thanks again.

 

Looking forward to the M in the future, but right now very happy dropping iron with the CE.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Baco

[Rudel_chw]

17 hours ago, Giskvoosk said:

A sign of lacking fundamental understanding of texturing from the devs.

 

  ... surely you are an expert digital artist, why every new DCS user seems to be like this?  .. another one for the filter. I get that the cockpit is dark, but why the need to be rude about it?

[Silver_Dragon]

Spanish Mirage F1 Cockpit... CB


 

[Giskvoosk]

13 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

  ... surely you are an expert digital artist, why every new DCS user seems to be like this?  .. another one for the filter. I get that the cockpit is dark, but why the need to be rude about it?

I'm not intended to be rude. It's not some angry rant from a "new DCS user", relatively newly registered as for this account yes however not so new into the game. I just want to point out its not "just dark", the texturing is objectively substandard and I already gave my reasoning, briefly but nonetheless.

Detailed reasoning as follows:

 

• Metallic channel:

In practice you should only assign metallic property to exposed metal parts: here for example the seat buckle, worn out painted parts, or some glass materials.

Instead metal value is assigned to most parts of cockpit, including fabrics. And its not like Dassault was painting the cockpit in metallic paint for aesthetic reasons.

And how the stitches on the fabric radar scope hood are metal? It completely blows my mind, metaphorically not figuratively.

How it should be handled if you may ask? ED's work as example:

The common approach is, DO NOT arbitrarily assign metal values to objects.

And to be honest, nothing else post-LOMAC has been as-confusing as what's presented in this Mirage F1 here.

 

 

• Deficiency in details:

For example the screws on sidewall. The screws are textures rather than 3d mesh, which is completely understandable as to save polygons (which is not the case i'll later explain).

First of all, as common approach you model the screws in high poly mesh then later bake into lower ones. Here the devs were taking a short cut by texturing the screws directly, which is okay as long as it could be detailed enough (not so here). The key part being, just see how distorted they are, the projection is completely wrong. Once again they took a shortcut by painting directly from UV. It's amazing such an error in conspicuous area rolled into public release instead of being debugged earlier in the development. 

rivets on inconspicuous parts as well

 

• Poorly baked AO maps

AO maps directly effect your shading, the blacker they are in grayscale, the darker it will be rendered, shadow-wise.

Again using ED's work as standard. How it should be baked:

How should not do:

To the point im suspecting dev's were using curvature maps by mistake for the AO maps.

 

• ill-optimised 3d mesh

The screw at the top of your trim hat: 400+ triangles

You may also want to check other switches that have semi sphere, couple hundred tris each. Things should be optimized to improved performance are simply not done.

 

 

These mistakes are easily avoidable, and some are rookie-level even.

@Rudel_chw take my opinions above with a grain of salt. In terms of art quality, the mirage is off the standard. I'm not being condescending or over-dramatic here, overall this is easily THE worst since 2016 even including the MiG-21's at its release.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Giskvoosk
typo

[NineLine]

1 hour ago, Giskvoosk said:

Am not intended to be rude. It's not some angry rant from a "new DCS user", relatively newly registered as for this account yes however not so new into the game. I just want to point out its not just "dark", the texturing is objectively substandard and I already gave my reasoning, briefing but nonetheless.

Detailed reasoning as follows:

 

• Metallic channel:

In practice you should only assign metallic property to exposed metal parts: here for example the seat buckle, worn out painted parts, or some glass materials.

Instead metal value is assigned to most parts of cockpit, including fabrics. And its not like Dassault was painting the cockpit in metallic paint for aesthetic reasons.

And how the stitches on the fabric radar scope hood is metal? It completely blows my mind, metaphorically not figuratively.

How it should be handle if you may ask? ED's work as example:

The common approach is, DO NOT arbitrarily assign metal values to objects.

And to be honest, nothing else post-LOMAC has been as-confusing as what's presented in this Mirage F1 here.

 

 

• Deficiency in details:

For example the screws on sidewall. The screws are textures rather than 3d mesh, which is completely understandable as to save polygons (which is not the case i'll later explain).

First of all, as common approach you model the screws in high poly mesh then later bake into lower ones. Here the devs were taking a short cut by texturing the screws directly, which is okay as long as it could be detailed enough (not so here). The key part being, just see how distorted they are, the projection is completely wrong. Once again they took a shortcut by painting directly from UV. It's amazing such an error in conspicuous area rolled into public release instead of being debugged earlier in the development. rivets on inconspicuous parts as well

 

• Poorly baked AO maps

AO maps directly effect your shading, the blacker they are in grayscale, the darker it will be rendered, shadow-wise.

Again using ED's work as standard. How it should be baked:

How should not to:

To the point im suspecting dev's were using curvature maps by mistake for the AO maps.

 

• ill-optimised 3d mesh

The screw at the top of your trim hat: 400+ triangles

You may also want to check other switches that have semi sphere, couple hundred tris each. Things should be optimized to improved performance are simply not done.

 

 

These mistakes are easily avoidable, and some are rookie-level even.

@Rudel_chw take my opinions above with a grain of salt. In terms of art quality, the mirage is off the standard. I'm not being condescending or over-dramatic here, overall this is easily THE worst since 2016 even including the MiG-21's at its release.

 

This is the first good bug report post of this thread, guys please remember, if you want things to improve then supplying the appropriate information is important, as well, if you dont think something is a bug, then dont report it, and dont jump into someone elses report and start a discussion, let the devs respond to the report themselves. Thanks.