DCS Newsletter discussion 9th September 2022 - A-1H Skyraider | Supercarrier progress | AI BFM

[SkateZilla]

Complaining about Module announcements,

And Yet there's complaints that ED doesn't Communicate about items in development.

Edited September 9, 2022 by SkateZilla

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

out of Context,
the 3rd Party Pick line was referring to Australia, Not Vietnam.

 

That true, but will still come. As stated in another post signed by our two awesome moderators. "Maps already planned can't be picked by 3rd parties", or something along those lines. 

Still waiting for Afghanistan to be announced. Then we'll see.

[SkateZilla]

Pearl Harbor, complete with Ben Afleck Scenery Item.

[Hiob]

48 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

wait until you are nearly 50 then you can start to worry. I wish I was 37 again, try to stay healthy and think positive thoughts, you will be fine. 

word! 

[Silver_Dragon]

2 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

I suppose that's part of my point; should it be us managing expectations or should it be ED managing a reasonable time frame for announced modules? At this point someone could announce a B2 bomber and a complete map of Asia for Q3 2028. Everyone cheers, the forums light up, and then... what?

 

ED is building hype with these announcements, and I'm all for it. I love my DCS toys. But maybe a balance between our expectations and what they can reasonably deliver within say, two-years? 

The problem with generating expectations is that it gives the feeling that some seem to be "newcomers" to DCS World.... since the days of LOMAC / FC, expectations were measured in 3-5 years, not to say that when it came out FC, there was talk of the Ka-50 or the A-10C, the same thing happened. We no longer talk about the times that passed since there was first talk of an F-16C, F/A-18C, AH-64 or even an EDGE mapping technology.... and now there are complaints about the modules of a 3rd party? If the RAZBAM F-15E has been clamoring for since 2014 or an F-14... we have to be patient, some of us are already 50, and we have spent the last 20 years from surprise to surprise and we are not desperate looking at the clock, but this same conversation has been repeated since the Ka-50.

4 hours ago, joker62 said:

About SC: what does this phrase "we are also working on directing aircraft from parking to catapults and from the landing box to parking" really mean? Is there something more or different from what we have now? Can you give some more information please?

that was talked by ED team on some team interviews some time ago, has a follow improvement to the carrier module.

[Beirut]

1 minute ago, Silver_Dragon said:

The problem with generating expectations is that it gives the feeling that some seem to be "newcomers" to DCS World.... since the days of LOMAC / FC, expectations were measured in 3-5 years, not to say that when it came out FC, there was talk of the Ka-50 or the A-10C, the same thing happened. We no longer talk about the times that passed since there was first talk of an F-16C, F/A-18C, AH-64 or even an EDGE mapping technology.... and now there are complaints about the modules of a 3rd party? If the RAZBAM F-15E has been clamoring for since 2014 or an F-14... we have to be patient, some of us are already 50, and we have spent the last 20 years from surprise to surprise and we are not desperate looking at the clock, but this same conversation has been repeated since the Ka-50.

 

I think it's a worthy conversation.

 

If modules are going to be announced years before they are ready, then it's only reasonable that the issue of time frames for release will be brought up. ED announces modules years in advance for a reason. That's fine, but there is a mirror image to that reasoning and you're reading it right now.

[Fulcrumkiller31]

I personally appreciate the transparency when modules are announced. I think we all know these things take a lot of time. More information on progress is appreciated however.

 

More modules and maps are always a good thing regardless if they are things you are interested in. Not a single other game exists out there that can compare to DCS. It’s only going to get better ! Especially with multicore !!!!

 

I remember the days when Black shark and the A10 were the only modules to exist. I was so hyped when the MIG21 was announced, so who knows what the future holds .

[Tom Kazansky]

This discussion ends in 2 years anyways because if they continue to do an announcement every week we won't have time to discuss any topics for we will have to learn those aircraft announced instead.

I'm ok with this.

 

[Furiz]

While working on AI can you please remove AA radars from SU25 AI, FC3 version doesn't have AA radar.

 

Around 30 miles out and going straight for me, should have no radar or datalink.

 

[71st_Mastiff]

A1H SkyRaider, this announcement brought tears to my eyes!!!! I have been wanting this plane modeled for 25 years since flight sims where a thing!

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by 71st_Mastiff

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

I think it's a worthy conversation.

If modules are going to be announced years before they are ready, then it's only reasonable that the issue of time frames for release will be brought up. ED announces modules years in advance for a reason. That's fine, but there is a mirror image to that reasoning and you're reading it right now.

while the discussion is legitimate, we return to the same. Putting a product release date or time frame for release has never been valid, since 2012.

- Someone remembers that when WW2 was recovered by ED, some release dates were given for the modules, and these could not be met, such as the problems in the flight model and other issues in the P-47 and the lack of info on the Me262 ?
- Does anyone remember that there are 3rd parties that have had to delay their launches due to development problems, including Heatblur and their F-14, in addition to now when they initially planned the F-4E in 2022 and they are already starting to comment that it could be delayed for 2023 and that there is no time frame for the A-6E and the Eurofighter?
-Someone remembers the problems that ED had when he couldn't get a module out on time and had to delay it, with the attacks against the studio about "where was my X". And not only that, this year there has been no roadmap, for the same problem. Let's not talk about Vulkan, Multithread, the dynamic campaign and much more.

The new 3rd parties, it is advisable to let them work and that they put the updates as they can, (examples, the Flyingiron A-7E or the M3 F4-1D), not to put strict limits on a development issue that is being seeing that it is impossible to measure because it is not known what problems may arise (and for several years now the problems do not stop appearing, one after another).

You have to be patient and calm down.

[Jester986]

I’m surprised we haven’t seen any WW2 modules announced. Yet. But In anycase the Skyraider will be great to have. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Jester986

[MAXsenna]

4 minutes ago, Jester986 said:

I’m surprised we haven’t seen any WW2 modules announced. Yet. But In anycase the Skyraider will be great to have. 

 

Well, these are all 3rd parties. Maybe ED will announce theirs after.
If a WWII module is coming from ED, my bets are on the Hellcat.

[Beirut]

1 minute ago, Silver_Dragon said:

while the discussion is legitimate, we return to the same. Putting a product release date or time frame for release has never been valid, since 2012.

 

It's not that it isn't valid, it's that it has been discarded in this case. There is nothing stopping anyone from giving a reasonable forecast for a release date. And I'm not being a stickler for exactitude; if the guys making the Skyraider, forexample, said something along the lines of "We hope to have it in your greedy grubby filthy unwashed little hands by Q4 2023, with a couple of months extra thrown in just in case", I can't see that as unreasonable. I think there would be a positive response. 

 

What causes flightsim heartburn amongst some is the "case of the disappearing airplane", where something is announced, hyped, and then months and months and months... go by and not a word. And where even the request for a word is met with a "We'll tell you when we feel like it." Which is fine, I guess, but remember they didn't have any problem telling us they were making it in the first place and getting us all hot and bothered and full of steamy visions of flightsim fantasy.

 

 

1 minute ago, Silver_Dragon said:

You have to be patient and calm down.

 

I AM CALM! 

 

It's Friday, the week is done, and good whiskey awaits. Everything is fine. 

[VIKBELL]

  ED it is nice addition to this Sim,    it will be a relatively changeling aircraft at slower pace than the Hornet and Falcons.    

[rob10]

5 hours ago, Beirut said:

...  forexample, said something along the lines of "We hope to have it in your greedy grubby filthy unwashed little hands by Q4 2023, with a couple of months extra thrown in just in case", I can't see that as unreasonable. I think there would be a positive response.

Alas, while you might not see that as unreasonable, there are WAYYYYY too many on here and other places online that would take that as a hard date an have the pitchforks and torches out by Dec 15 2023 (and by Dec 31 be in full meltdown).  Sad, but has been proven many times already.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Do it, Sandy. Do it, now. I'd do it for you.

[joker62]

9 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

that was talked by ED team on some team interviews some time ago, has a follow improvement to the carrier module.

thanks for the reply, I had completely missed this interview, or maybe I didn't understand this detail well. I always prefer something written. Thanks again.

[Mogster]

7 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Well, these are all 3rd parties. Maybe ED will announce theirs after.
If a WWII module is coming from ED, my bets are on the Hellcat.

The “tumbleweed” regarding DCS WW2 content is quite noticeable. It’s been a year since the EA launch of the Mosquito.

I expected at least a WW2 announcement from ED to keep the ball rolling.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Mogster

[MadKreator]

I see both sides of the argument as valid. But its hard to please everyone, that’s for sure. Maybe when these things are announced it might be good to tell all what stage the module is actually currently in, in development. Are basic renderings done, any flight systems, anything? Same for maps. That gives no promise of release date , but can give many some needed/wanted information, instead of being in the dark completely. Yes there’s a few photos attached to most and a teaser video maybe, but a line or two of “ we have this and this done currently” can go a long ways. Problems arise, just like with anything. The Apache got delayed for several months even when ED was confident enough to show a release date. Which for me was fine. But for some maybe not so much. I’m sure they got their share of backlash when something wasn’t delivered exactly when said. Realistically, depending on the size of dev team, at least a year or two would be my best guess before any actual release on any of these new announcements ( although SA/Falklands seemed to come fairly quickly, maybe I’m getting old and just losing track of time ) I wish it was sooner. Like hey this is just announced for release next month.  Instead of a tease that causes endless pissing matches, then fizzles out with the occasional sarcastic comment about it here and there over the next, who knows how long ie. dynamic campaign, Vulkan, multi-core. We all want them, and we want them bad, but would we have been better off not knowing these things were in the works? Possibly

[MAXsenna]

38 minutes ago, MadKreator said:

I see both sides of the argument as valid. But its hard to please everyone, that’s for sure. Maybe when these things are announced it might be good to tell all what stage the module is actually currently in, in development. Are basic renderings done, any flight systems, anything? Same for maps. That gives no promise of release date , but can give many some needed/wanted information, instead of being in the dark completely.

This!

[YoYo]

9 hours ago, 71st_Mastiff said:

A1H SkyRaider, this announcement brought tears to my eyes!!!! I have been wanting this plane modeled for 25 years since flight sims where a thing!

 

Yep and I know Skyraider very well (I was working on Skyrider for different sim). 3D of Skyrider looks very, very nice, plus textures, however I saw that for system and FM will be responsible "cubanace". The same guy (with very strange story about this mod of Su-57). Personally I'm surprised approach for the others users like this (and now he is part of development team  ?):

Of course, I wish you all the best, but I'm wondering about the selection of these new companies. I hope that DCS will stay on high level of quality still.

Edited September 10, 2022 by YoYo

[Mogster]

Yes. I think it’s better to be honest and if development is at a very early stage then that should be made clear. It seems that most of the 3rd party efforts are part time projects between a few people and completion can take several years. 
 

There seems to have been a move towards only announcing projects that are reasonably close to release so that has raised expectations. If this policy has now changed again then the community needs to be aware to manage expectations if nothing else.

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Mogster

[Mogster]

10 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Yep and I know Skyraider very well (I was working on Skyrider for different sim). 3D of Skyrider looks very, very nice, plus textures, however I saw that for system and FM will be responsible "cubanace". The same guy (with very strange story about this mod of Su-57):

Of course, I wish you all the best, but I'm wondering about the selection of these new companies. I hope that DCS will stay on high level of quality still.

Yes I did notice his involvement. As you say I assume ED will continue reviewing these projects before commercial 3rd party release as happens currently. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Mogster

[ThorBrasil]

I'm very grateful to know what's being developed at DCS, even if it takes a while to release it's good to know what we expect in the future of DCS. Thanks ED for the announcements. I hope you don't fail to let us know because of some people who don't know how to wait and don't understand the complexity of developing a module. I wish DCS World success.