waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Rudel_chw]

36 minutes ago, AbsurdBurds said:

I won’t let a few drops of spilled milk ruin my fun.

I realize that there are Dcs users that don’t have any razbam modules, but for me its more than a few drops, as I own 4 aircraft modules and one Map from that developer, and I was looking forward to adding a sixth module to my collection (the Mig-23) … so, definitely more than just drops. 
 

And I’m not quitting the fun of flying dcs, as I have plenty of modules to have fun with, I’m just stopping my future purchases until the issue is cleared.

Edited June 25, 2024 by Rudel_chw

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

I realize that there are Dcs users that don’t have any razbam modules, but for me its more than a few drops, as I own 4 aircraft modules and one Map from that developer, and I was looking forward to adding a sixth module to my collection (the Mig-23) … so, definitely more than just drops. 

I also own all the Razbam modules (along with basically every DCS module) and agree losing them is more than drops.  But overall, with or without the Razbam modules, DCS brings so much joy to my life that I can't let the failure of those modules destroy the whole platform for me.  So I plan to continue buying modules the same way as I always have unless and until there is some other platform out there that brings these aircraft to us in a comparable level of fidelity.

[spikef22]

11 hours ago, Avimimus said:

After what happened with the Alphajet, it may be the case the ED has contractual clauses which allow them to take over a product which is no longer being supported. The tragedy, however, might be the unreleased modules - if Razbam has had their team members sign non-compete clauses and/or has the IP for existing work - then we might not see aircraft like the Mig-23 or IA-58 (even if they are relatively complete). Of course, this is very speculative.

 

Razbam has showed interest in completing the MIG-23 if there is a resolution 

[Notso]

9 hours ago, NineLine said:

You and Skates need to go have a DM chat, you guys are talking about hypothetical and theoretical things here that do nothing other than confuse people looking for simple information and updates. Neither of you know fully what is going on and guessing will just make you go crazy. This situation has been going on longer than public knowledge and things have been happening that led to what we are seeing now. We just need to hold the line.

No disrespect intended @NineLine - but how do you know that YOU know the whole story too?  You likely only know what your management/Nick tells you as well and that carries no more or less weight than what Ron and other RB members have told me directly.  So I think its a bit disingenuous to say that I don't know what's going on.  I fully admit that Ron may be lying to everyone at RB, but I don't think so given what he's shared with the team.  But you would also have to admit that Nick or whoever in the Sr ED chain may not be telling YOU the full story.  I am privy to more than you think.  So lets just leave it at that.

[Ignition]

10 hours ago, afnav130 said:

Yeah because the 15E was horrible when it came out. Even now it's a pretty damn good module. Ever hear of a TFR system in DCS ever before? You know, the thing that DCS has never had? And it's incredible. How about the HRM that is insanely good?

The F-15E has the best image simulation of TGP of any other aircraft.

Edited June 26, 2024 by Ignition

[Hammer1-1]

14 hours ago, afnav130 said:

Yeah because the 15E was horrible when it came out. Even now it's a pretty damn good module. Ever hear of a TFR system in DCS ever before? You know, the thing that DCS has never had? And it's incredible. How about the HRM that is insanely good?

as if that was the pinnacle of DCS as a whole? there was no a2g radar until the Hornet came out. there was no multi crew until the Tomcat came out...a lot of this stuff needed to be done before the TFR could even be considered, I still dont know why theres no Jester or Petrovich alternative for the F-15E which is really the bane of most of us offline SP guys existence who want to fly the thing. lets climb off that horse please?

[draconus]

8 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

And I’m not quitting the fun of flying dcs, as I have plenty of modules to have fun with, I’m just stopping my future purchases until the issue is cleared.

Maybe there are a few that want to send a message this way but I'm going to guess it's minority and most customers really don't care about "situation" or even don't know about it. Just like you bought the Kola because you wanted it badly other users will buy anything they deem attractive. Most probably won't ask what is the developer name, are they nice or rude, or even if they respond on the forum - they'd just expect a working module to have fun with.

I love F-15E and always wanted it (maybe F-15C version more) to come to DCS so losing it is not acceptable for me. Wouldn't quit DCS though since there are still other good aircraft to fly, no matter if they are old or new, or ones that are about to come. Pragmatic approach.

[Blackeye]

1 hour ago, Hammer1-1 said:

as if that was the pinnacle of DCS as a whole? there was no a2g radar until the Hornet came out. there was no multi crew until the Tomcat came out...a lot of this stuff needed to be done before the TFR could even be considered, I still dont know why theres no Jester or Petrovich alternative for the F-15E which is really the bane of most of us offline SP guys existence who want to fly the thing. lets climb off that horse please?

And each of the modules you mentioned pushed the envelope at the time they were introduced, just like the F-15E.  You can think of Razbam and this conflict whatever you want but let's also be giving credit where it is due: the F-15E has the best AG radar in DCS, the first TFR and overall it is a great module. And it would be really sad if we lost it.

Edited June 26, 2024 by Blackeye

[Gizmo03]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Hammer1-1:

as if that was the pinnacle of DCS as a whole? there was no a2g radar until the Hornet came out. there was no multi crew until the Tomcat came out...a lot of this stuff needed to be done before the TFR could even be considered, I still dont know why theres no Jester or Petrovich alternative for the F-15E which is really the bane of most of us offline SP guys existence who want to fly the thing. lets climb off that horse please?

Did the UH-1, Mi-8 and L-39 have Multicrew already before the release of the Tomcat? I’m a single player so i’m not really sure - that’s why i’m asking. Or are you talking abaout an AI Crewmember like Jester?
But regarding the A/G Radar - the first module with that feature was not the Hornet but the Viggen.
In my personal opinion the F-15E was a really good release with a lot of potential. But i think it‘s not just about the state of the module at the release of EA. It‘s more about the aircraft itself. The Strike Eagle is a worldwide used and i think it’s a very famous aircraft. I guess a lot of people (like me for example) are feeling a bit like coming back to the 90s playing the Microprose Strike Eagle games and the Janes F-15. I can‘t imagine (pretty naive - i know) that such a famous aircraft and complex piece of 12 years of work will just go the way of the BAE Hawk.
But IF it does, it would be rally sad.

[Blackeye]

16 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

Did the UH-1, Mi-8 and L-39 have Multicrew already before the release of the Tomcat?

IIRC the L-39 had it first but the Mi-8 got multi-crew last year and the Huey about a year after the F-14 was released.

[Gizmo03]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Blackeye:

IIRC the L-39 had it first but the Mi-8 got multi-crew last year and the Huey about a year after the F-14 was released.

Thanks for the info. I really thought it was implemented much earlier. But as i said - i‘m just a single player and wasn‘t sure.

[draconus]

24 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

Did the UH-1, Mi-8 and L-39 have Multicrew already before the release of the Tomcat? I’m a single player so i’m not really sure - that’s why i’m asking. Or are you talking abaout an AI Crewmember like Jester?
But regarding the A/G Radar - the first module with that feature was not the Hornet but the Viggen.

Correct - L-39 was first DCS multi-crew module and Viggen had A2G radar before the Hornet. UH-1H and Mi-8 got the multi-crew support fairly recently, years after release. F-14 was first with AI crew.

[Gizmo03]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb draconus:

Correct - L-39 was first DCS multi-crew module and Viggen had A2G radar before the Hornet. UH-1H and Mi-8 got the multi-crew support fairly recently, years after release. F-14 was first with AI crew.

Thanks.

[BIGNEWY]

7 hours ago, Notso said:

No disrespect intended @NineLine - but how do you know that YOU know the whole story too?  You likely only know what your management/Nick tells you as well and that carries no more or less weight than what Ron and other RB members have told me directly.  So I think its a bit disingenuous to say that I don't know what's going on.  I fully admit that Ron may be lying to everyone at RB, but I don't think so given what he's shared with the team.  But you would also have to admit that Nick or whoever in the Sr ED chain may not be telling YOU the full story.  I am privy to more than you think.  So lets just leave it at that.

You have given your feedback here in these threads a lot, often with claims we can not answer due to the nature of the dispute, repeating your version or narrative here does not help the case, please just take a break and remember our 1.10 rule. 

thank you 

[draconus]

So, some smart user already came up with a fix/workaround to a radar problem without changing a date for entire system.

https://github.com/slasher84/budgie/releases

How the work is going, ED?

Edited June 26, 2024 by draconus

[BMO]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

Maybe there are a few that want to send a message this way but I'm going to guess it's minority and most customers really don't care about "situation" or even don't know about it. Just like you bought the Kola because you wanted it badly other users will buy anything they deem attractive. Most probably won't ask what is the developer name, are they nice or rude, or even if they respond on the forum - they'd just expect a working module to have fun with.

I love F-15E and always wanted it (maybe F-15C version more) to come to DCS so losing it is not acceptable for me. Wouldn't quit DCS though since there are still other good aircraft to fly, no matter if they are old or new, or ones that are about to come. Pragmatic approach.

I agree with you that a lot of people arent interested in the Razbam situation, since they maybe dont even have a module from them. I do have some, but I also have enough other modules I have/had fun in. So from that point of view I can live with a world without Razbam (altough it would be very very very sad).

The thing that actually really disturbs me and makes me hesitant about further module buys is the fact that it´s about ED withholding payment. And not for the first time. Ofc there can be many reasons to do that, but all things considered I have the impression that ED has trouble with the cash flow. I simply think that they arent able to pay. 

 

Imagine running multiple construction sites (modules) with the same main contractor because they are known for their quality. They are a bit behind schedule on some of them to put it mildly. Ok no biggie, happens all the time. They promise that everything will be fine and the outcome will be great.

But progress is slow.

Now one of their subcontractors stops work because they dont get paid and ear on the street has it that it wasnt the first time sth like this happened. Ofc could be some legal issues or whatever. But it usually means further delays,cost and stress.

Meanwhile your main contractor starts even more projects.

I think it´s only logical to start asking if they are even able to finish their projects. Would you hire that company again?

[Oban]

47 minutes ago, draconus said:

So, some smart user already came up with a fix/workaround to a radar problem.

https://github.com/slasher84/budgie/releases

How the work is going, ED?

Have you tried/tested it ?

[draconus]

7 minutes ago, Oban said:

Have you tried/tested it ?

not yet

Edited June 26, 2024 by draconus

[falcon_120]

As much as I respect the sentiment (I am seriously annoyed with the situation as well), I won’t do that.  I have literally spent my entire life waiting for a combat flight sim like DCS, and I want to enjoy every module that I can.  I’m at a stage where the money itself doesn’t have a major impact on my life, but missing out on the enjoyment of using these amazing modules would.  It’s the same reason I won’t return the F15E.  I love the module too much, and even if it might not have a future I want to keep the beautiful work that exists.  If the Razbam modules or got forbid all of DCS were to fail completely, I would be devastated. 

I share the same sentiment, and i am also keeping the F15e for the moment. For me the 60€ish are not a huge impact financially right now, and i thank god for that. Not being able to enjoy the F15E is worse given that Flight sims are my main hobby these days (nerdy hobbies, still prefer having time with family and friends ofc).

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[Slippa]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

How the work is going, ED?

I wonder if ED can or will work on a fix for the F-15? It’s good that a clever tinkerer’s come up with something and it seems to be spreading around. I’ve not had a chance to look either yet but I’m grateful they’ve done something.

As helpful as it may be using ‘budgie’ I’d rather use a fix from more official channels. I paid ED, I bought the modules from ED assuming 3rd parties would be paid by them after that. My business is with ED, since they sold me the module I feel it’s their responsibility to put it right. Obviously that’s easier said than done given the state of affairs.

What really bugs me (no pun intended) is that all this can’t be dealt with promptly. I like to attack problems head on and rapidly. Get it sorted. That’s not happening here, clearly we’re gonna have to wait a while but are ED working on a fix practically or ‘working (waiting and hoping) on a fix’?

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Slippa said:

I wonder if ED can or will work on a fix for the F-15? It’s good that a clever tinkerer’s come up with something and it seems to be spreading around. I’ve not had a chance to look either yet but I’m grateful they’ve done something.

As helpful as it may be using ‘budgie’ I’d rather use a fix from more official channels. I paid ED, I bought the modules from ED assuming 3rd parties would be paid by them after that. My business is with ED, since they sold me the module I feel it’s their responsibility to put it right. Obviously that’s easier said than done given the state of affairs.

What really bugs me (no pun intended) is that all this can’t be dealt with promptly. I like to attack problems head on and rapidly. Get it sorted. That’s not happening here, clearly we’re gonna have to wait a while but are ED working on a fix practically or ‘working (waiting and hoping) on a fix’?

We have to follow a process which is what we are doing, at the moment I can not say when the radar issue will be fixed. 

As for the community mod, it is not official or endorsed by Eagle Dynamics. 

Thank you

[Czar66]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

We have to follow a process which is what we are doing, at the moment I can not say when the radar issue will be fixed. 

As for the community mod, it is not official or endorsed by Eagle Dynamics. 

Thank you

Hi. Quick question. Is there any chance Eagle Dynamics can confirm they can do the radar fix themselves independently of the current dispute?

I'm sorry to poke at this issue right now like this given how the situation is on the forum and everywhere, but this radar issue heightens the frustration of paid legitimate customers by the week.

Thank you.

Edit: I know there is a mod. That's still sub optimal for some.

Edited June 26, 2024 by Czar66

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Czar66 said:

Hi. Quick question. Is there any chance Eagle Dynamics can confirm they can do the radar fix themselves independently of the current dispute?

I'm sorry to poke at this issue right now like this given how the situation is on the forum and everywhere, but this radar issue heightens the frustration of paid legitimate customers by the week.

Thank you.

Hi, 

we know what the issue is and it can be fixed but there is a process we must follow before a fix can be applied so we will need to be patient, when we can say more we will. 

thank you 

[Slippa]

Thanks for that at least.

We all coulda done without this. I don’t blame either side more than another, shame it’s happening at all, hope for calmer skies. 

Edited June 26, 2024 by Slippa
Grammar

[nessuno0505]

I've always supported ED, but from these last answers it seems that they don't have a completely clear conscience either, so they are very careful and weigh every move to the maximum. They don't have to do anything wrong anymore if they want to bring home the result, whatever it may be. RB's, on the other hand, it is not clear whether they are more hot headed or more naïve, perhaps a bit of both.