waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[alejandr0]

3 minutes ago, draconus said:

As always a lot of conjecture and assumptions from people that know nothing about a case. Apparently you won't know the whole truth and you shouldn't make any conclusions from that. Both parties fight for their rights and want to play it their way. Nothing is over. Nothing has really changed. We're still waiting for the resolution.

That's the thing.

 

2 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

The positive take that I think we have is NL stating that support will continue.

Sure, the unit's probably won't be enhanced, but at least they'll continue to work.  If you exclude the F15E, the other 3 seem to be in a pretty good condition (I fly all of them and don't have any issues with them).  That to me seems to guarantee ongoing usability, which is cool.

Yes, it would be nice for the F15E to finished, but that's something for further down the line.

 

Pretty much anything else seems to be purely speculation, so I'm staying out of that.

But the F-15E still works...

 

[Mr_sukebe]

9 minutes ago, alejandr0 said:

That's the thing.

 

But the F-15E still works...

 

 

It does, but it is missing quite a lot of functionality.  The other 3 are pretty much ready to rock and roll, which is why I refunded the F15E and am very happily using the other three.

[David CB]

Can I or not refund all my RAZBAM products?

If this is possible, please explain clearly so I don't have to navigate in circles in the ticket system, or whatever method I will have to use.

I don't have any hopes this situation will ever solve, so my F15E, Harrier and South Atlantic Map are dead to me.

If I have to keep them and end up stuck with them, because it is too late or whatever reason is given, please state it as soon as possible.

Not taking sides, I don't care what reasons lead to this situation.

Just I don't want any product susceptible to be abandoware (or just be already).

Thanks in advance. 

 

[MustangSally]

5 minutes ago, David CB said:

Can I or not refund all my RAZBAM products?

If this is possible, please explain clearly so I don't have to navigate in circles in the ticket system, or whatever method I will have to use.

I don't have any hopes this situation will ever solve, so my F15E, Harrier and South Atlantic Map are dead to me.

If I have to keep them and end up stuck with them, because it is too late or whatever reason is given, please state it as soon as possible.

Not taking sides, I don't care what reasons lead to this situation.

Just I don't want any product susceptible to be abandoware (or just be already).

Thanks in advance. 

 

As stated over and over and over again, this issue does not affect the SA Map. They are a different team. Only the F-15E can be refunded for store credit!

[lee1hy]

5 minutes ago, MustangSally said:

As stated over and over and over again, this issue does not affect the SA Map. They are a different team. Only the F-15E can be refunded for store credit!

South Atlantic Map is still EA and still unfinished. It doesn't make sense that it only applies to the F-15E.

[Jayhawk1971]

Having read Mr. Zambrano's latest post, I did not get the impression that he's ready for RB's business relations with ED to end. Rather I notice a willingness to continue developing for DCS. So nothing is set in stone, yet.

Also, by cutting the cord, his chances of ever seeing his cut from the F-15E sales are probably rather slim. So it presumably would be in his best interest to do his part to resolve the issue.

There aren't that many options currently to sell digital fighter aircraft, especially high-fidelity ones, so unless RB has plans to expand into developing trucks for ATS/ETS or trains for the various railroad sims, the only way to sell their current - and future - modules (and retaining the focus on combat sim) right now is via DCS.

Edited April 8 by Jayhawk1971

[MAXsenna]

South Atlantic Map is still EA and still unfinished. It doesn't make sense that it only applies to the F-15E.

As mentioned over and over. SA map is NOT made by Razbam.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[David CB]

hace 8 minutos, MustangSally dijo:

As stated over and over and over again, this issue does not affect the SA Map. They are a different team. Only the F-15E can be refunded for store credit!

Thanks. Refunding the Mudhen already.

[BIGNEWY]

18 minutes ago, lee1hy said:

South Atlantic Map is still EA and still unfinished. It doesn't make sense that it only applies to the F-15E.

SA map is still being worked on and has been receiving updates from the SA team.

Only the F-15E is eligible for a refund from our eshop. 

[lee1hy]

13 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

As mentioned over and over. SA map is NOT made by Razbam.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

As mentioned over and over. SA map is made by Razbam.

Edited April 8 by lee1hy

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, lee1hy said:

As mentioned over and over. SA map is made by Razbam.

please read my post above yours. 

 

[Silver_Dragon]

5 minutes ago, lee1hy said:

 

The team members before South Atlantic Map has the same of Kola Map (Orbx), they have appears on the RAZBAM and Orbx discord, and have outside from all of the RAZBAM Drama. 

Building maps has many diferent to build pilotable modules (difernet tools, SDK vs TDK), and RAZBAM has none as a propper "map team".

Edited April 8 by Silver_Dragon

[HiJack]

This is such a sad story. I hope they solve all problems and finish the F-15E. I will keep it, even if it breaks down so only the ejection seat works!

[Gizmo03]

vor einer Stunde schrieb draconus:

As always a lot of conjecture and assumptions from people that know nothing about a case. Apparently you won't know the whole truth and you shouldn't make any conclusions from that. Both parties fight for their rights and want to play it their way. Nothing is over.

Yes you are absolutely right. No one appart from the parties involved in this dispute have the whole picture. 
Don't get me wrong - i'm also still hoping for a good outcome and i will not refund the F-15E. But what i said about the source code is not an assumption done by me since prowler by himself mentioned that in his last statement as he also said repeatedly that ED is not able to maintain, support or continue developement of their products without them. That also sounds to me like "Guys: there is no hope for our modules if we loose."
This may be part of the game and the way prowler is playing it but it also underlines the hot headed attitude of him. And it also shows that prowler is not interested in an agreement for a future DCS with all the RB modules but without RB as a developer.

And what else can we do than building our own picture with these little fragments of information we get occasionally. As i said: 5 weeks ago prowler was pretty optimistic since he got all his accounts back. That sounded very good. Yesterday ED removed all the RB modules from their store on request of RB. Is there anybody here who thinks that this is a good sign?

vor einer Stunde schrieb draconus:

Nothing has really changed.

Try to buy one of RBs products now.....
But again - don't get me wrong. I'm still hoping for a positiv solution and i really like your optimism which you always show. I really do but unfortunately at this very point i can't share it. The Harrier is one of my absolute favorite modules as the Strike Eagle will be hopefully in the future if they could find a solution. It would be really sad, if this modules wouldn't survive the dispute.
But due to all the current ups and downs at the moment i think i will take a break - from the RB modules and maybe even from reading this thread and concentrate a bit more on the wonderful modules we already have and the improvements of them like the already mentioned pilot body for the A-10C.

[draconus]

41 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

Try to buy one of RBs products now...

Here you are: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2316890/DCS_F15E/

Better hurry though.

42 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

And it also shows that prowler is not interested in an agreement for a future DCS with all the RB modules but without RB as a developer.

There's nothing like that in his statements.

[Gizmo03]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb draconus:

Here you are: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2316890/DCS_F15E/

Better hurry though.

Ah come on. You know exactly what i've meant. It's only STILL available because it takes more time to remove it from the steam store.

 

vor 30 Minuten schrieb draconus:

There's nothing like that in his statements.

"Our development pipeline, including all source code has never been - and will never be - released to any distributor or third party."

Maybe i'm wrong but this sentence means exactly that he's not willing to give / sell the source code to any other developer in order to keep the modules in the game in case they will leave DCS.

Edited April 8 by Gizmo03
Typo

[draconus]

7 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

Maybe i'm wrong but this sentence means exactly that he's not willing to give / sell the source code to any other developer in order to keep the modules in the game in case they will leave DCS.

Yes, and it's their right, but why would they leave DCS? They want to make an agreement and continue the work... and make money like any business would do in such a development niche.

[Beirut]

2 hours ago, David CB said:

Thanks. Refunding the Mudhen already.

 

I'm flying it all the time. 

[falcon_120]

Same, one of my favorite jets in DCS.

[Gizmo03]

vor einer Stunde schrieb draconus:

Yes, and it's their right, but why would they leave DCS?

Because they don't get paid?? Taking off the modules from the stores is not a step in the direction to stay.
 

vor einer Stunde schrieb draconus:

They want to make an agreement and continue the work...

I would appreciate if they find an agreement. But what if not at all, or the solution is not to their favor?

vor einer Stunde schrieb draconus:

and make money like any business would do in such a development niche.

By taking off their products from the store??
Yes i know - it seems like they don't receive the money from the sold modules at the moment but if they find an agreement they should get it afterwards.

But anyway..... we will see what happens.....

Edited April 8 by Gizmo03

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Gizmo03:

"Our development pipeline, including all source code has never been - and will never be - released to any distributor or third party."

Maybe i'm wrong but this sentence means exactly that he's not willing to give / sell the source code to any other developer in order to keep the modules in the game in case they will leave DCS.

The time may come when he doesn't really have a choice, if he wants to recoup at least some of the money invested. 

Considering the market for combat flight simulations is currently rather modest, Razbam really doesn't have too many options. So, hypothetically, if there would be no agreement with ED, RZ may find himself in a position where he may have to chose between getting nothing at all, or selling the IPs for a reasonable sum to another party. Doesn't necessarily have to be ED. He could even negotiate to retain the rights for his IPs for use in other sims/ platforms that may pop up in the future.

Strictly speaking as a customer, I would have absolutely no problem with, say, Heatblur buying the F-15E (license, IP and source code) from Razbam, maybe even hiring the same team that made the module, and finishing it. Bonus points for adding their Jester AI to the backseat (and crew chief interaction while we're at it).

This may sound a bit harsh, but, honestly, my "allegiance" is not to a company where I am an indirect customer, but to the product I've purchased, that I would like to be able to enjoy to its fullest (marketed) potential.

Edited April 8 by Jayhawk1971
typo

[Esac_mirmidon]

"At the moment" is 18 months unpaid for any sale.

Enlight me, Who can survive as a company or a person for 18 months being unpaid.

Whos willing to keep working unpaid for 18 months? I have a nice business where i live for who wants to work for free

Edited April 8 by Esac_mirmidon

[SteelPig]

19 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

"At the moment" is 18 months unpaid for any sale.

Enlight me, Who can survive as a company or a person for 18 months being unpaid.

Whos willing to keep working unpaid for 18 months? I have a nice business where i live for who wants to work for free

80% of the economy all the time. Such delays in payment are the norm, not the exception. 

[SharpeXB]

34 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

"At the moment" is 18 months unpaid for any sale.

Enlight me, Who can survive as a company or a person for 18 months being unpaid.

Whos willing to keep working unpaid for 18 months? I have a nice business where i live for who wants to work for free

Yes that fact amazes me. What it reveals is they aren’t a “company” per se but a group of hobbyists for whom this really isn’t their “day job”. That despite being one of the major Third Party devs for DCS. Even such sales are probably very small. I imagine this is the case for all the Devs really. 

Edited April 8 by SharpeXB

[Gizmo03]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Esac_mirmidon:

"At the moment" is 18 months unpaid for any sale.

Enlight me, Who can survive as a company or a person for 18 months being unpaid.

Whos willing to keep working unpaid for 18 months? I have a nice business where i live for who wants to work for free

But that's what i mean when i ask "what if they don't find an agreement at all?"
They either have to focus on other platforms or to shut down the business. But anyway i cannot imagine that they will continue developing DCS content without payment. Additionally he now said he will not release the source code to anyone else. And if they don't continue (in the worst case) and they will not give the source code to anyone else - what will be the result?

And i think no one is willing to keep working unpaid for 18 months. That's why they stopped working already 12 months ago, or did i miss some updates to their modules?