DCS World Patch Notes Discussion Thread

[Hiob]

11 hours ago, imacken said:

I’m sorry to be negative, but again, I have to ask, why has this OB gone to stable? I mean, Marianas is totally unusable in VR. 

Honestly, you VR-guys are aware that VR is just a very special use case and not the main/only target audience?

Edited July 15, 2021 by Hiob

[speed-of-heat]

yep we are aware... and thats why we are vocal... 

[Hiob]

Yes, vocal like "mi mi mi, first solve OUR problems, to OUR satisfaction...and then and ONLY then you MAY move on...."

 

That is annoying af!

[Dunx]

You VR guys

You AMD guys

You 3090 guys

You Hotas guys

You Buttkicker guys

You Simpit guys

You MP guys

You Rotor guys

You Dogfight guys

 

Grow up! really no need to marginalise!

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Yes, vocal like "mi mi mi, first solve OUR problems, to OUR satisfaction...and then and ONLY then you MAY move on...."

 

That is annoying af!

 

Solving edge case scenarios helps everyone. The only one crying here seems to be you though, maybe keep it polite and civil if you want to have a civilized discussion. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Lurker

[Hiob]

3 minutes ago, Dunx said:

You VR guys

You AMD guys

You 3090 guys

You Hotas guys

You Buttkicker guys

You Simpit guys

You MP guys

You Rotor guys

You Dogfight guys

 

Grow up! really no need to marginalise!

No other group makes nearly as much noise as the VR-guys.

And it's not that they are pointing out issues - which they should do.

It's that they complain about EVERY move ED makes, that doesn't point in their direction.

And as always, it's probably not all of them, but a few who are constantly complaining.

If you like my opinion or not - for me the VR-complainers are the single most annoying thing in this forum!

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Solving edge case scenarios help everyone. The only one crying here seems to be you though. 

And I'm absolutely sure that ED is working on this issue like many others.

The thing is the missing modesty of some people!

 

The thing that bugs me, is the "how dare you to let it go to stable, when my VR-problem isn't solved"!

 

VR is not the main feature of DCS!!!

Edited July 15, 2021 by Hiob

[Tom Kazansky]

Thread was dead for 14 days and now we got it here within hours.

 

Ain't there a thread that is called "come in, take over the thread and argue what's been argued 100 times already"?

[zildac]

27 minutes ago, Hiob said:

No other group makes nearly as much noise as the VR-guys.

And it's not that they are pointing out issues - which they should do.

It's that they complain about EVERY move ED makes, that doesn't point in their direction.

And as always, it's probably not all of them, but a few who are constantly complaining.

If you like my opinion or not - for me the VR-complainers are the single most annoying thing in this forum!

And I'm absolutely sure that ED is working on this issue like many others.

The thing is the missing modesty of some people!

 

The thing that bugs me, is the "how dare you to let it go to stable, when my VR-problem isn't solved"!

 

VR is not the main feature of DCS!!!

 

VR is the "future" of flight sims, unless you're talking about commercial full motion systems. Hell even the US Army will be using it to train their A10 rookies soon 

 

I don't think  us "VR lot" are moaning unduly, merely bringing focus to the point that it really needs some specific attention and dev effort spent on it.

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by zildac

[BIGNEWY]

Please talk about the patch notes here, 

 

if you have a bug post it in the relevant bugs section. 

 

Take the VR discussion to the VR forum section please. 

 

Marianas is early access and is being tuned, if you have poor performance you will need to lower your settings for the terrain, the team are working on optimisations but please understand Marianas is a highly detailed terrain so it will test any system. 

 

thanks

The ED team

[Svsmokey]

I must say that i found Marianas performance in VR to be much less of an issue than expressed in this forum . During a FF (F18) by way of an introduction to the map , flying low and high , I only had 1 stutter . 

One thing I found interesting was that after landing at Anderson , I noted how much better the F15E's looked compared to the statics at Kolki . 

ED really nailed the cars too . As a tower crane rep IRL , i was surprised to see how much more vibrant car colors looked from ~ 1200 feet . I see the same in the Marianas map .

Edited July 15, 2021 by Svsmokey

[phant]

5 ore fa, BIGNEWY ha scritto:

Please talk about the patch notes here...

 

Hi BIGNEWY, there is something wrong with the changelog of patch 2.7.3.8494, it is the same as of 2.7.2.8165.2

 

 

Bye

Phant

Edited July 15, 2021 by phant

[Recluse]

1 minute ago, Svsmokey said:

I must say that i found Marianas performance in VR to be much less of an issue than expressed in this forum . During a FF (F18) by way of an introduction to the map , flying low and high , I only had 1 stutter . 

One thing I found interesting was that after landing at Anderson , I noted how much better the F15E's looked compared to the statics at Kolki . 

ED really nailed the cars too . As a tower crane rep IRL , i was surprised to see how much more vibrant car colors looked from ~ 1200 feet . I see the same in the Marianas map .

 

Me too. My FIRST Flight (FREE FLIGHT mission) was kind of awful.  Since then I get about the same performance as other maps. Some issues when on heavily populated airfields for sure, but I haven't tried it on an equally populated airfield on another map.

[majorandme]

Bignewy, I just noted the latest update to stable version included for the F-14 the following.  Will this be updated for Hornet as well?

Great work!

 

• NEW: Carrier Burble Aerodynamics
  • Carriers will now create a burble behind the stern.
  • Burble intensity differs with carrier and wind speeds and needs to be taken into account when landing on the carrier. 
  • When in close, the burble will first generate positive vertical velocity, immediately followed by negative vertical velocity. 
• NEW: At night, the catapult launch is triggered by turning the exterior lights on (in accordance with manual procedures). 

[Yurgon]

1 hour ago, majorandme said:

I just noted the latest update to stable version included for the F-14 the following.  Will this be updated for Hornet as well?

 

I'm pretty sure ED said they'll implement the burble effect as well, so I'm sure it'll come for the Hornet.

 

No idea about the cat shot triggered by external lights. I like the idea, it seems to make sense. Except... I hardly know anyone even remotely sticking to something called a procedure on the Supercarrier, so I'm not sure ED is looking forward to all the "HELP my Hornet just catapulted off the deck before I was ready!!!!!" requests that I'm sure would follow such a change...

Edited July 15, 2021 by Yurgon

[PLUTON]

update 2.7.28165.2 is not the same as 2.7.38494, where you saw it was the same ??

[Northstar98]

2 hours ago, PLUTON said:

update 2.7.28165.2 is not the same as 2.7.38494, where you saw it was the same ??

 

Correct, it isn't - but at the time of writing the changelogs posted were practically identical.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Northstar98

[PLUTON]

Ha ok thank you for the info excuse me

[Shibbyland]

22 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please talk about the patch notes here, 

 

if you have a bug post it in the relevant bugs section. 

 

Take the VR discussion to the VR forum section please. 

 

Marianas is early access and is being tuned, if you have poor performance you will need to lower your settings for the terrain, the team are working on optimisations but please understand Marianas is a highly detailed terrain so it will test any system. 

 

thanks

The ED team

Hi BIGNEWY,

 

It's certainly a fantastic looking terrain. I just wonder if we're at the point where the recommended system specs need to be looked at particularly if the long term plan is to incorporate the technology used in the Marianas map into Caucasus.

 

I'm running a 9700k, RTX 2060 Super, 32GB RAM and installed on an SSD with plenty of space. By no means a top of the line system but no slouch either. Fantastic performance on Caucasus and Persian Gulf on a mixture of high settings and some dialed back but abysmal on Marianas. I can only speak for myself but I'm really happy with the quality of graphics and performance on these maps and would prefer not to have to reduce things like shadows and reflections in order to play the more detailed maps such as Marianas.

 

I see somebody earlier commented on things progressing faster than the average user can keep up. I tend to agree with that, I've upgraded my system multiple times over the last few years including replacing the GPU three times, the CPU twice, more cooling, double the RAM etc. I pretty much use DCS as the bar by which I judge the outcome of these upgrades. You guys are pushing the envelope which is commendable but it might come at the cost of leaving quite a few customers behind.

 

This is by no means a criticism, DCS never fails to impress but personally, I just can't keep up.

 

Thanks

Edited July 16, 2021 by Shibbyland

[Baldrick33]

4 hours ago, Shibbyland said:

I'm running a 9700k, RTX 2060 Super, 32GB RAM and installed on an SSD with plenty of space. By no means a top of the line system but no slouch either. Fantastic performance on Caucasus and Persian Gulf on high settings but abysmal on Marianas. I can only speak for myself but I'm really happy with the quality of graphics and performance on these maps and would prefer not to have to reduce things like shadows and reflections in order to play the more detailed maps such as Marianas.

 

I think some choice on settings for the older maps and those pushing the boundaries is somewhat inevitable, especially in early access. Also catering for a wide range of hardware is always going to involve some compromise and IMHO providing a range of content with somewhat varying performance allows for users with low, medium and top end hardware to find what works best for them. This is very different from console games where the hardware is fixed. In my view aiming all content at a "standard" configuration is going to disappoint more enthusiasts.

 

Which brings me to my second point, this is an enthusiast piece of software which typically is going to require some greater investment both in software and hardware than a typical computer game. Fortunately the continual development approach of adding more content rather than replacing it in a more typical release cycle (DCS 2018, 2019 2020 etc.) does mean we can pick and choose what works well with our hardware. Sometimes though we may need to pass on the shiny new early access until either it gets better tuned or we upgrade.

 

Of course we want ED to do everything possible to make it run faster and be more detailed and have more features but it isn't exactly as if we aren't already vocal in asking for that and the early access process seems to work pretty well in allowing us to feedback back experiences with a wide array of hardware beyond any closed test group.

[Hoirtel]

4 hours ago, Shibbyland said:

Hi BIGNEWY,

 

It's certainly a fantastic looking terrain. I just wonder if we're at the point where the recommended system specs need to be looked at particularly if the long term plan is to incorporate the technology used in the Marianas map into Caucasus.

 

I'm running a 9700k, RTX 2060 Super, 32GB RAM and installed on an SSD with plenty of space. By no means a top of the line system but no slouch either. Fantastic performance on Caucasus and Persian Gulf on high settings but abysmal on Marianas. I can only speak for myself but I'm really happy with the quality of graphics and performance on these maps and would prefer not to have to reduce things like shadows and reflections in order to play the more detailed maps such as Marianas.

 

I see somebody earlier commented on things progressing faster than the average user can keep up. I tend to agree with that, I've upgraded my system multiple times over the last few years including replacing the GPU three times, the CPU twice, more cooling, double the RAM etc. I pretty much use DCS as the bar by which I judge the outcome of these upgrades. You guys are pushing the envelope which is commendable but it might come at the cost of leaving quite a few customers behind.

 

This is by no means a criticism, DCS never fails to impress but personally, I just can't keep up.

 

Thanks

 

We can't expect all maps to run the same. They have come over over widely different times and, as with the aircraft, the bar get raised higher each time and therefore the demand gets raised higher each time. New GPUs come out every 2-3 years and the highest settings will only be accessible to a full compliment of top tier hardware and even then its not advisable to run everything at top values. I guess if ED want to help all users then perhaps having graphics pre-sets available per map which auto load might be helpful. That way we can tune more specifically for each generation of map. 

 

"would prefer not to have to reduce things like shadows and reflections in order to play the more detailed maps such as Marianas" - this probably sums up a lot of the problems that people are experiencing with the newer maps and features. They just don't want to turn settings down. I get it completely! Its a very negative thing to have to do, but as with all sims I have used. They get better, as my hardware gets older, and the gap gets bigger.

[Shibbyland]

51 minutes ago, Hoirtel said:

We can't expect all maps to run the same. They have come over over widely different times and, as with the aircraft, the bar get raised higher each time and therefore the demand gets raised higher each time. New GPUs come out every 2-3 years and the highest settings will only be accessible to a full compliment of top tier hardware and even then its not advisable to run everything at top values. I guess if ED want to help all users then perhaps having graphics pre-sets available per map which auto load might be helpful. That way we can tune more specifically for each generation of map. 

 

"would prefer not to have to reduce things like shadows and reflections in order to play the more detailed maps such as Marianas" - this probably sums up a lot of the problems that people are experiencing with the newer maps and features. They just don't want to turn settings down. I get it completely! Its a very negative thing to have to do, but as with all sims I have used. They get better, as my hardware gets older, and the gap gets bigger.

Oh I totally agree with your comment and Baldrick's above. It's a given that DCS (or software in general) evolves and our machines must be upgraded to keep up or we must accept a reduction in performance. I also agree DCS has a smaller but more niche userbase and as such many of us are prepared to pay a bit more. 

 

My point is that I fit in that exact category, between hardware and modules I've spent thousands of dollars since 2017 when I first got into it and during that time as we went from 1.5 to 2.7 I've had to adjust settings. However, my own experience is were now at the point where the degradation in performance is so significant and so much more sudden than what is typical. For example, my last big upgrade was less than a year ago and it was to my processor, RAM and hard drive. At that time I was achieving circa 90-120FPS, had plenty of memory spare and had used less than half my hard drive. Fast forward a few months and on the most demanding maps I've got an 80% reduction in framerate, 90% memory usage and have used 75% of my hard drive, still a relatively low CPU usage.

 

I'll add I'm running custom settings with some of the more important bits set to high and other things reduced as a compromise. I don't expect to run DCS maxed out and to attempt to do so wouldn't provide enough of an improvement in experience to warrant the cost. 

 

Granted there will be a small number of users who can keep up with this but I suspect the majority can't. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Shibbyland

[Hoirtel]

7 minutes ago, Shibbyland said:

Oh I totally agree with your comment and Baldrick's above. It's a given that DCS (or software in general) evolves and our machines must be upgraded to keep up or we must accept a reduction in performance. I also agree DCS has a smaller but more niche userbase and as such many of us are prepared to pay a bit more. 

 

My point is that I fit in that exact category, between hardware and modules I've spent thousands of dollars since 2017 when I first got into it and during that time as we went from 1.5 to 2.7 I've had to adjust settings. However, my own experience is were now at the point where the degradation in performance is so significant and so much more sudden than what is typical. For example, my last big upgrade was less than a year ago and it was to my processor, RAM and hard drive. At that time I was achieving circa 90-120FPS, had plenty of memory spare and had used less than half my hard drive. Fast forward a few months and on the most demanding maps I've got an 80% reduction in framerate, 90% memory usage and have used 75% of my hard drive, still a relatively low CPU usage.

 

Granted there will be a small number of users who can keep up with this but I suspect the majority can't. 

That does sound a big reduction, assuming that you are fully on top of all the usual PC housekeeping. With CPU usage, check per core rather than overall. DCS is single core heavy.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Hoirtel

[imacken]

I agree with the principle of what is being said here. 
What hardware upgrade would people suggest to make Marianas usable for me in VR? Just curious. 

[Shibbyland]

1 minute ago, Hoirtel said:

That does sound a big reduction, assuming that you are fully on top of all the usual PC housekeeping. 

Yea for sure, everything kept up to date, I don't run additional programs in the background. I'm getting good power output and cooling appears to be sufficient.

 

The 80% reduction is only on Marianas (20FPS over land), Syria runs much better but I can't manage more than a moderate number of units and I don't even try multiplayer on it.

[Hoirtel]

Just now, imacken said:

I agree with the principle of what is being said here. 
What hardware upgrade would people suggest to make Marianas usable for me in VR? Just curious. 

The biggest and fastest you can afford.