Hornet Roadmap Discussion

[Azazel]

Thanks for the update Wags. I appreciate the continued communication from ED and all the team's efforts. I'm disappointed that the Viper is on the back burner for now but in the end that's fine - its still a lot of fun to fly. ED's work continues to impress me, as do the work of several of the 3rd party developers. I generally buy it all in an effort to support the organization and the hobby.

 

As for the hornet, I'm more for getting the flight model and all the sensors functioning first (ATFLIR especially) but as an engineer I understand that other things can get implemented from other teams that are bonus items and they may not effect the timelines of core part of the F/A-18C's development. Keep up the good work and commo. Many thanks!!!

[shagrat]

Im sry but the existing system is FAR FAR FAR away from complete, existing or how ever you call it, its an simply button on everything is running system and nothing more,... it is not worth to call it a simulation of anything,...

So when you don't switch the simple button, there are no simulated errors and dependencies to other systems?

On my install there are a lot of simulated consequences if you fail to switch the knob.

Sure you can take into account more details in the process and simulate them... wait, that's what Wags posted, they want to enhance the simulation and add these additional bits.

[VFA41_Lion]

is the ED dev team planning on responding in here? I've already seen Nick's hoggit post but it doesn't address any of the discussion points made here regarding feedback of the roadmap item priorities.

[MonnieRock]

Where ED and everyone else seems to disagree heavily is leaving ~27 features for "after early access release", which I think is fair. The product should be in EA until the planned feature list is complete, even if that happens in 2021 or later. I think the disagreement is less about the timeframe and more about marking a product with so many features missing as "out of early access".

 

I posted on reddit to nick my actual main thought, but hoenstly the items on the ORIGINAL pre-order sales page need to be completed for it to be termed 'Out of Early Access' .. you guys might have changed it's page (and the vipers etc) to no longer have those lists but we brought it with said list. To move the 'goal posts' after the point of sale is just wrong on soo many levels.

 

As I said in the response to Nick, I get it.. some of those features need core DCS World update to be finished, in that case say as much and explain it properly or don't remove it out of EA until those items are done.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind supporting EA for another year or something. It's this new attitude to call modules 'out of EA' even though they are still lacking a lot of promised stuff that freaks me out. Luckily this time I'm not the only one. Maybe ED will reconsider?

 

I agree gentlemen. This whole announcement does not sit well with me. :doh:

 

Questions for ED:

1) ED, why create all this when all you have to do is say "Hornet will still be in Early Access until 2021"?

 

2) ED, will the hornet be labelled as "Incomplete" or "In Development" after removing the "Early Access" nomenclature?

 

3) ED, your whole defense since the release of the Hornet module about bugs/incomplete feature(s) has been "It is in Early Access, if you want the module feature complete, early access is not for you. Wait until out of Early Access.". What will be the next nomenclature to be applied to the Hornet Module to suppress consumer dissatisfaction because of bugs/incomplete feature(s)?

 

 

 

My feeling and opinions:

 

From ED's store page:

 

What is DCS World Early Access?

Early Access is an option for you to play this module in an early state, but it will be incomplete with bugs. The time a product remains in Early Access can vary widely based on the scope of the project, technical hurdles, and how complete the module is when it enters Early Access. Eagle Dynamics and all of our third parties strive to make this period as short as possible. An Early Access module can be played on both the Open Beta and Release versions of DCS World. Once the module exits Early Access, you will automatically have the Release version.

 

I fully agree with this policy and purchased the product in agreement. :thumbup:

 

However completely disagree :no_sad:

Out of EA=Release = incomplete with bugs , but we are still working on features that were listed to come during Early Access / plethora of bugs to be addressed.

 

ED, please reconsider keeping the Hornet in Early Access until being feature complete and bugs squashed even if until 2025 to avoid the perception of :badmood: over the company.

 

 

Happy Simming,

Monnie

Edited April 23, 2020 by MonnieRock

[Wags]

is the ED dev team planning on responding in here? I've already seen Nick's hoggit post but it doesn't address any of the discussion points made here regarding feedback of the roadmap item priorities.

 

Dear NPO,

 

We are reading all of your comments and we appreciate them all. Later today and tomorrow, I will field the questions that are not already addressed in Nick's earlier post.

 

Thank you and kind regards,

Matt

[Mouse_99]

I am beat down, I know it doesn't matter what I say, they will do what they please. I can understand delays in the pandemic, I respect that, but to remain vague in what is EA, out of EA and maintenance updates is a failure of the profound. They are setting up a moving target as an excuse, and I just ain't buying it. They need to focus on the vital parts, flight model, with basic weapons and steadily move out from there. They claimed they would work on both Hornet and Viper with no delays, they now say things that were never mentioned before, so the bottom line here is we are at their mercy. They talk about how much they've grown, which to me means they are bringing in more money, which I see could be put to work finishing out their product line while tackling new projects. It's like a retail store with not enough employees, they expect their customers to put up with it because "that's just the way it is". That's not the way it should be. With all the success ED has going, there is no joy in Mudville.

[SDsc0rch]

i'm just afraid that ED won't release a module for a LOTTTT longer because everybody is griping about "how" they release them ---- i'd rather have what we've got, than wait for a YEAR to get to fly these great jets

sorry, but i just don't get worked up with semantics and labels and titles

its like fake boobs - if i can touch them, they're not fake

LOL

[LastRifleRound]

We currently have a functioning INS included with the Hornet, what the improvement is, is the simulation of INS alignment, making it more realistic and more of a simulation. So, yes in this case, its an improvement to an already existing system that we want to make better. Hope that makes sense, thanks!

 

Define "functional"? Does it drift in NAV but not IFA? Is there a way to correct drift?

[hanab]

given the problems ED is having to stabilize 2.5.6, the issues in publishing the super carrier module and the announcement of the end of the development of the F18C in 2021/22, I think that Mr. Grey should offer the SC to all owners of very early access of hornet....

[RSharpe]

First of all, what exactly is the purpose of bringing the Hornet out of "early access" in 2020 when the module will not be feature complete, with many features being pushed off into 2021 and beyond in some sort of indefinite sustainment status? Just to redefine early access and full release, and revise the feature list?

 

As a customer, I'm afraid that ED has moved the goalposts, re-written its promises, and cut off key features and putting them on indefinite life-support, with not plans to actually finish them. Unless the true goal is to to offer "Hornet 2.0" down the line so similar to A-10C 2 and Blackshark 3 in order that they can monetize us further in order to collect the resources necessary to finally finish the Hornet. I surely hope this is not the plan, and ED makes this a clear promise.

[AvroLanc]

Define "functional"? Does it drift in NAV but not IFA? Is there a way to correct drift?

 

It counts down from 30s. When it reaches 0, place INS knob to NAV. That’s about it. Nothing else simulated in background. Please ED correct me if I’m wrong.

[theIRIEone]

First off, thanks for inviting the community to discuss and finalize the plan.

 

Second, i don't care how long you call it EA or if you call it out of EA.

As long as all the features will get implemented with priority over modules that came after it, i am very happy.

 

Regarding the roadmap, personally i also would like to see core aircraft features being implemented and refined before we get more weapons.

 

It's not that i would mind weapons, but seeing how potent the Hornet got when comparing it with it's initial release state, i think it is safe to say it is a completely different beast and very much multi-role capable.

 

On the other hand, there's still core features missing such as CPL A/P modes, MDC w/ WPTSEQ options, MIDS/Link16, JHMCS functions, proper BIT, ASPJ etc.

 

I am happy to see some of those made it into the EA part of the section already, but i'd surely love to see more of these core aircraft functions pushed to the nearer future if possible, in exchange for weapons systems.

 

Obviously some of these weapon systems sound fun as well and the ATFLIR would be considered "core equipment" to a USN Hornet, but since this comes with a whole different can of worms i wouldn't want you to stop working on everything else just to bring us this pod as the next big feature.

 

Stay healthy and thanks again for focusing on the Hornet for now.

[probad]

dont know whats to discuss about this lmao just sticky and lock

 

its like going to the ocean to pan for gold

all youll get is salt

[BuzzU]

its like going to the ocean to pan for gold

all youll get is salt

 

That's not true.

 

It is off topic, so PM me if you want to discuss it.

[FoxOne007]

As more an F-16 pilot than a F-18 pilot, I am beyond disappointed and feel lied to! Around the F-16's release the official statement from ED was that the F-18 and F-16 were separate teams and would not impede/slow down each others developments (which didn't feel like the case much later after that statement) but they would actually be beneficial in certain areas (Radar, weapons, etc). Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago, a new ED statement that you guys aim to have both the F-18 and F-16 out of EA and done by the end of 2020 (Viper already quickly became Q1 2021 instead). And then now you release this Hornet roadmap and just slam the door right into our (viper pilots) faces and made sure our fingers would also be stuck between it with the statement that F-16 development will be slown down, all in all I am very pissed off and extremely disappointed!!

Edited April 23, 2020 by FoxOne007

[Caffeine_High]

Thanks for the improved communication. Just please crack the whip on the devs and let's get this finished!

[-LEO-]

Unpopular opinion.... Suspend work on the hornet, focus on the viper. #thesilentmajority

 

 

unpopular opinion... be honest, suspend work on other stuff, focus on hornet...and think about if a realistic price for a released module is/would have been the right way.

To be honest. It is remarkable an honorable to let the pants down now, but please draw your conclusions out of it for the future.

 

 

Best regards

 

Leo

[pimp]

is the ED dev team planning on responding in here? I've already seen Nick's hoggit post but it doesn't address any of the discussion points made here regarding feedback of the roadmap item priorities.

Is this recent? If so, can you provide a link please? Thanks!

[Wizard_03]

i'm just afraid that ED won't release a module for a LOTTTT longer because everybody is griping about "how" they release them ---- i'd rather have what we've got, than wait for a YEAR to get to fly these great jets

sorry, but i just don't get worked up with semantics and labels and titles

its like fake boobs - if i can touch them, they're not fake

LOL

 

My thoughts exactly :D

[Viking 1-1]

Let's be honest:

 

Where would we be without ED? There would be no other Sim like this!

 

Do I like the delays and sometimes broken things? No, surely not.

 

But do I still have a lot of fun when I'm flying with my mates with the Hornet? Hell yeah!

 

 

So again thank you ED for all your effort. 2020 will be a pretty f**** up year for a lot of us and many things won't work out as planned. But no matter what, I can still escape reality for a couple of hours playing your awesome sim. Thanks for that. I will remain a backer of you guys, no matter what. You brought my hobby to the next level.

[Flia]

Let's be honest:

 

Where would we be without ED? There would be no other Sim like this!

 

Do I like the delays and sometimes broken things? No, surely not.

 

But do I still have a lot of fun when I'm flying with my mates with the Hornet? Hell yeah!

 

 

So again thank you ED for all your effort. 2020 will be a pretty f**** up year for a lot of us and many things won't work out as planned. But no matter what, I can still escape reality for a couple of hours playing your awesome sim. Thanks for that. I will remain a backer of you guys, no matter what. You brought my hobby to the next level.

 

Amen:thumbup:

[shawnyp420]

unpopular opinion... be honest, suspend work on other stuff, focus on hornet...and think about if a realistic price for a released module is/would have been the right way.

To be honest. It is remarkable an honorable to let the pants down now, but please draw your conclusions out of it for the future.

 

 

Best regards

 

Leo

 

Yes!!! It’s clear to me that ED has too many active projects and not enough in the backlog. 25 half finished projects is ZERO finished projects!

[Bloodhound57]

Hey Guys,

 

I remember when the Hornet first came out we were getting all kinds of updates. Things were moving at a ferocious pace. Then, we were told that things were going to slow down because they were working on more complex systems. Hornet production slowed way down. Videos and mini-updates also slowed down. Then......BAM! The Viper was announced. People were angry because they believed that the Hornet Team was moved to work on the Viper. We were told that it was not true and that they were two teams. (I was also angry and received a 20% warning in this forum). At some point, ED admitted that it was one team working on both airframes.

 

I am happy that ED has decided to refocus on the Hornet and to make it what everyone hopes and wishes it will become. ED please continue with the honest communication, this is a smart community, we can see when something is amiss.

 

Steve

[raelias]

Let's couple of years were really lies on top of lies, it's hard to even keep track anymore, realli disapointed, please, do better

[SDsc0rch]

post after post after post after post here...........

:megalol:
Edited April 24, 2020 by SDsc0rch