Normandy Map Discussion

[REDEYE_CVW-66]

Clouds will not be redone for this map. It is slated for improvement after the 2.5 merge later, after explosions. The weather you will get in the early access of the map will be the same as in other maps and versions of DCS. Thankfully- it is on the list.

[Talisman_VR]

Racoon,

 

This book looks like a very good source of information for the Normandy map:

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=I10OjlPjcI0C&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=2nd+taf+ground+attack+techniques&source=bl&ots=5Fs7Aq_c9B&sig=aakAadthwHzEV9MjOhlnUS4KS50&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi03PTj9pLTAhWHJMAKHfPiBrwQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=2nd%20taf%20ground%20attack%20techniques&f=false

 

Just been reading about Irish Guard tanks in Normandy firing red smoke to indicate German positions for RAF Typhoon rocket attacks in close air support.  It was interesting to read that some Typhoon rocket attacks were within 100 yards of the Guards' tanks which were burning yellow recognition smoke.  It appears that in instances like this, accurate Typhoon rocket attacks were very desirable because artillery fire could not be brought down on the German positions due to the close proximity of the British tanks.

 

Anyone know if it is possible for individual British tanks in DCS to burn recognition smoke during the course of close air support attacks?  It would be nice to be able to trigger recognition smoke just as friendly close air support attacks, as well as lay coloured smoke on the enemy.

 

Anyone know it the German Tanks/forces also utilised smoke in the same way for recognition and to lay on enemy positions?  Did the LW provide much close air support to ground troops in Normandy, bearing in mind that the Allies had air superiority?

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited April 9, 2017 by 56RAF_Talisman

[shagrat]

Racoon,

 

This book looks like a very good source of information for the Normandy map:

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=I10OjlPjcI0C&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=2nd+taf+ground+attack+techniques&source=bl&ots=5Fs7Aq_c9B&sig=aakAadthwHzEV9MjOhlnUS4KS50&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi03PTj9pLTAhWHJMAKHfPiBrwQ6AEINjAF#v=onepage&q=2nd%20taf%20ground%20attack%20techniques&f=false

 

Just been reading about Irish Guard tanks in Normandy firing red smoke to indicate German positions for RAF Typhoon rocket attacks in close air support.  It was interesting to read that some Typhoon rocket attacks were within 100 yards of the Guards' tanks which were burning yellow recognition smoke.  It appears that in instances like this, accurate Typhoon rocket attacks were very desirable because artillery fire could not be brought down on the German positions due to the close proximity of the British tanks.

 

Anyone know if it is possible for individual British tanks in DCS to burn recognition smoke during the course of close air support attacks?  It would be nice to be able to trigger recognition smoke just as friendly close air support attacks, as well as lay coloured smoke on the enemy.

 

Anyone know it the German Tanks/forces also utilised smoke in the same way for recognition and to lay on enemy positions?  Did the LW provide much close air support to ground troops in Normandy, bearing in mind that the Allies had air superiority?

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

There are Triggers already in the ME for "smoke marker on unit", that can be combined with an F10 Menu option to call for marks, or use automated group/unit/coalition in zone conditions.

It would be up to the mission designer to implement it like that, though.

[Silver_Dragon]

Any news about the Flak and the train / truck convoy logistic features?

[Alicatt]

^this

Just the risk to throw a track, is a pretty good incentive not(!) to try.

You have seen the video of the man that stole the M60A3?

How easy it got stuck when he tried to cross the meridian of the freeway.

 

[John Hargreaves]

Clouds will not be redone for this map. It is slated for improvement after the 2.5 merge later, after explosions. The weather you will get in the early access of the map will be the same as in other maps and versions of DCS. Thankfully- it is on the list.

 

 

Ah, thanks for the reply, that makes sense. Explosions - woohoo

 

 

Looks to be plenty to look forward to this summer.

[hansangb]

You have seen the video of the man that stole the M60A3?

How easy it got stuck when he tried to cross the meridian of the freeway.

 

 

No surprise since that's EXACTLY what tank traps look like! :)

 

Couple of notes. You can knock over small trees with tanks. I've done it in APCs and that's lighter than MBTs. Also, in peace time, the tracks have rubber gaskets to prevent the tracks from tearing into the road. In combat, they come off giving the tanks better traction.

 

Also, rock/mud/sand build up causes a lot of thrown tracks. But it's also a function of driver experience. You can feel when you're about the throw a track.

[shagrat]

No surprise since that's EXACTLY what tank traps look like! :)

 

Couple of notes. You can knock over small trees with tanks. I've done it in APCs and that's lighter than MBTs. Also, in peace time, the tracks have rubber gaskets to prevent the tracks from tearing into the road. In combat, they come off giving the tanks better traction.

 

Also, rock/mud/sand build up causes a lot of thrown tracks. But it's also a function of driver experience. You can feel when you're about the throw a track.

Yep, and he tried to cross at an angle with high speed, exactly like you should not do it.

The occasional small tree is not a problem, when the driver has experience and is taking it head on.

But I learned dense forrests are a tank blocker, unless you have engineers clear a path, for the tanks.

[NeilWillis]

Woods are tank blockers definitely. Apart from the timber, there is always the risk of a hidden anti tank weapon, so always to be avoided when there is a choice.

[wash_hoban]

It such a shame that the Normandy Map and assets will have to be purchased by people like myself who just want to host DCS World for other players to join

 

I dont think I know of any other sim/game that you have to pay extra just to host it for others

[Brigg]

Woods are tank blockers definitely. Apart from the timber, there is always the risk of a hidden anti tank weapon, so always to be avoided when there is a choice.

 

unless its the Ardennes :lol:

[DD_Fenrir]

It such a shame that the Normandy Map and assets will have to be purchased by people like myself who just want to host DCS World for other players to join

 

I dont think I know of any other sim/game that you have to pay extra just to host it for others

 

Until a dedicated server comes out - which I think is somewhere in the pipeline, I could stand corrected - how can they do this any other way?

 

You should get a free version? I host for my squadmates occasionally, that means I should get a free version too. I wonder how many others would suddenly appear claiming their free version cos they just host?

 

Come on man, seriously? :huh:

[wash_hoban]

Until a dedicated server comes out - which I think is somewhere in the pipeline, I could stand corrected - how can they do this any other way?

 

You should get a free version? I host for my squadmates occasionally, that means I should get a free version too. I wonder how many others would suddenly appear claiming their free version cos they just host?

 

Come on man, seriously? :huh:

 

How can they do this any other way? , well they have the source code ....

 

It so easy and so simple

 

Just make it so that you CANNOT click on ANY PLANE slot if you have not

paid for the MAP

 

Pretty simple, isn't it ?

 

People can still host a server , they just cannot click on any plane slot and fly a plane

 

It has been a very long long long time and still no dedicated server

 

I am not asking for a free version for me to fly on , just let me host a "dedicated" (term used loosely) server for others to play on

[DD_Fenrir]

How do you load the map in the first place if you have not purchased it?

 

These files are on your local client machine - but only if you purchase the map.

 

Now by your suggestion everybody would have to have the map files on their local machine with some sort of serial key checker running each time they enter a server to see if they have the required modules.

 

However that would mean that DCS world as a base download to the client would require all map files to be downloaded with it - whether you want them or not.

 

This would mean vastly inflated storage for modules people neither have a right to access or even want to. People can get very territorial about their storage capacity and if they find that every new map requires a sizable update for a theatre/map/assets module they don't even want then things could get tetchy very quickly.

 

It also more easily exposes ED to defrauding because hacking could result in people bypassing the security to access files already on their machine. It is a simpler and less costly arrangement to prevent access to a module via the current means as you cannot acquire the relevant files until your serial key has been authorised.

Edited April 11, 2017 by DD_Fenrir

[shonist]

How do you load the map in the first place if you have not purchased it?

 

These files are on your local client machine - but only if you purchase the map.

 

Now by your suggestion everybody would have to have the map files on their local machine with some sort of serial key checker running each time they enter a server to see if they have the required modules.

 

However that would mean that DCS world as a base download to the client would require all map files to be downloaded with it - whether you want them or not.

 

This would mean vastly inflated storage for modules people neither have a right to access or even want to. People can get very territorial about their storage capacity and if they find that every new map requires a sizable update for a theatre/map/assets module they don't even want then things could get tetchy very quickly.

 

It also more easily exposes ED to defrauding because hacking could result in people bypassing the security to access files already on their machine. It is a simpler and less costly arrangement to prevent access to a module via the current means as you cannot acquire the relevant files until your serial key has been authorised.

 

You are correct, but if you think about other games/sims, you already have most of the files even if you dont own or you arent able to use them.

[wash_hoban]

How do you load the map in the first place if you have not purchased it?

 

These files are on your local client machine - but only if you purchase the map.

 

Now by your suggestion everybody would have to have the map files on their local machine with some sort of serial key checker running each time they enter a server to see if they have the required modules.

 

However that would mean that DCS world as a base download to the client would require all map files to be downloaded with it - whether you want them or not.

 

This would mean vastly inflated storage for modules people neither have a right to access or even want to. People can get very territorial about their storage capacity and if they find that every new map requires a sizable update for a theatre/map/assets module they don't even want then things could get tetchy very quickly.

 

It also more easily exposes ED to defrauding because hacking could result in people bypassing the security to access files already on their machine. It is a simpler and less costly arrangement to prevent access to a module via the current means as you cannot acquire the relevant files until your serial key has been authorised.

 

Nope I never said everyone should have it as part of the base package

 

It should be possible maybe to download the map from the module mananger TAB

within DCS (only if you want to get it for hosting) , that way not everyone will have to download it

 

What I said was have it so that when you tried to click a plane slot and you have not purchased Normandy then you could not join that slot (thus allowing people to host a "server" for others to use)

 

Hacking DCS is not an issue they use the unbreakable starforce system as

well as the online login system

 

Pretty much any other game/sim does not try to force you to pay money just to host a multiplayer server

Edited April 11, 2017 by wash_hoban

[71st_AH Rob]

Actually, it is stupidly simple to make this happen. Remembering that we are not talking about every John, Dick and Harry who wants to occasionally run a co-op mission for their buddies, they already have a copy and don't need another, but for those that run a 24/7 dedicated server.

 

As a server admin I already have a second account that I use to host the dedicated server because I'm not leaving my gaming rig on 24/7 and I'd like to fly too, sometimes in other people's servers.

 

So this other account has no modules, it only hosts the mission. If they were to give me a second copy of the map for that account I could not fly with it anyway, since it has no modules. If I were to activate an aircraft module on it they would simply need to deactivate my map and they know what modules are linked to which accounts.

 

If they had done this with the NTTR there would be more than the six 24/7 dedicated public servers in 2.0 I'd bet. I would be running one for certain.

 

It would benefit the community, the server admins who don't have to buy a superfluous map while waiting for the dedicated server software to be released and ED. Let's face it, the best advertising they get are the videos made by community members posted on YouTube made in multiplayer servers.

Edited April 11, 2017 by 71st_AH Rob

[NineLine]

There is no good system to give away extra map modules and not have people abuse it. So its not as simple as you might think.

[NineLine]

Dedicated server is in the plans the last we heard, but no timeline.

[Abburo]

We know exactly as you said.. is planned, but low prio or no timeline :). We just pinging time to time just to not be forgotten ;)

[The Black Swan]

Why would anyone who likes DCS host a server that they would never play on? :huh:

[wash_hoban]

There is no good system to give away extra map modules and not have people abuse it. So its not as simple as you might think.

 

I beg to differ, it will be as easy or as hard as ED want to make it, they have the source code

and can make any changes they want

 

ED can change things so that:

1. You could choose to download Normandy/NTTR if you just want to host (you therefor cannot select a plane slot)

through the module manager, NO valid KEY = you CANNOT select any plane SLOTS

 

2.ED could grant keys to account's only to be used on dedicated servers (and most servers ONLY have a

static IP) meaning if the person with the key tried to move it to a different machine it could be invalidated

 

There are many ways to approach solving this issue, the easiest of course is for ED to release a proper dedicated

server exe for us to use, but it is sadly not a priority for them.

 

Like I was suggesting earlier the ball is in ED's court. Already with having to pay for maps

just to host servers on it is splitting the small user base of flyers up even further .... there will be

 

DCS World 1.5 basic servers (no asset packs)

 

DCS World 1.5 servers (with packs)

 

2.0 World NTTR (no asset packs)

 

2.0 World NTTR (with asset packs)

 

2.0 World Normandy (no asset packs)

 

2.0 World Normandy (with asset packs)

 

Am I missing any combination out? Not sure this route is a wise or good one for us to be on.

Currently we have 2 server types running now, at at this time/date we have ...

 

1.5 - servers 92 / players 280

2.0 - servers 18 / players 35

 

Its not good to split up the already small player base up further

 

Would it be possible to have a discussion on this matter, we could site examples of how some others have handled this issue ?

[NineLine]

There is no real reason to have a discussion on this, the Merge is going to reduce the combinations, a dedicated server option is planned, but we have no details right now.

 

Also, how many of those server you listed are actual dedicated servers, and not people hosting?

 

Anyways, the discussion here is the Normandy map, not server hosting.

[Vitormouraa]

Did Matt upload the part 2 of the Su-25 video to YouTube? Watching videos via facebook is terrible, since I want to see the details, I would like to watch on Youtube.

 

Thanks

[PicksKing]

Did Matt upload the part 2 of the Su-25 video to YouTube? Watching videos via facebook is terrible, since I want to see the details, I would like to watch on Youtube.

 

Thanks

 

Not yet.

Indeed facebook is not very suitable for watching videos in high quality.