DCS Newsletter discussion August 26th 2022 - DCS Top end Australia | Open beta updates | Enigma server

[Rudel_chw]

13 minutes ago, NineLine said:

Weird, almost like I work for ED or something.

great response, I got a big laugh from it 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Rudel_chw

[YoYo]

8 hours ago, Minsky said:

I truly wish the team all the best with their debut, but this is how I see this map:

Good idea! It will make sense! Just Australia for me (sorry guys!) make not a big sense.

[Gunfreak]

 

7 hours ago, shagrat said:

Did I really miss Indonesia, Tymor, China or anything else than Australia in the picture for the planned area?

Because, if it really is "just" what we can see on that picture, I have to agree with the prevalent feedback... 

That's not the problem. I do this with all maps, other than the Syria map... But I would love(!) to recreate real world missions that actually happened and happened in the last 30 years.

If that is indeed the map. Then mabye the furtherst north east part of the map, can be a poor man's stand in for some ww2 stuff. Depending on how many modern buildings are in the rainforest. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Gunfreak

[Gierasimov]

The good. The bad. Choices are choices. It seems to me that the lack of this year's roadmap in January is being replaced by a steady stream of announcements. 

All we saw over the past weeks is DCS years to come, and this year isn't even close to grande finale yet. They just want to take out minds off the imminent Strike Eagle release. 

Sit back, relax, enjoy the show. 

 

[Tom Kazansky]

If I understand Wags correctly this new team (like every other new team) wants and has to prove that they understood how map building works. And this with a terrain that is not a vital and urgently needed in the line of DCS warfare terrains.

After this, they might be able and allowed to do a region  that we all want and need.

From this point of view, is it really so wrong to start with northern Australia?

[NineLine]

11 minutes ago, Tom Kazansky said:

If I understand Wags correctly this new team (like every other new team) wants and has to prove that they understood how map building works. And this with a terrain that is not a vital and urgently needed in the line of DCS warfare terrains.

After this, they might be able and allowed to do a region  that we all want and need.

From this point of view, is it really so wrong to start with northern Australia?

And they are from this area, so they know it better than most, it makes sense. Like I keep saying, big picture

[Snowy55]

I’m looking forward to this map. Australian F/A-18s will be at home there as will other aircraft during Pitch Black exercises and other scenrios. I can picture HMAS Melbourne and A-4Es in RAN colours. A beautiful part of the world.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Snowy55
Extra text

[Dragon1-1]

6 minutes ago, Snowy55 said:

Australian F/A 18s will be at home there as will other aircraft during Pitch Black exercises and other scenrios. 

Or they would be, if we get the F/A-18A. Or F. Aussies never got the C model. I certainly would love the A model Hornet at some point, but that's not terribly likely.

The F-4E will be right at home, though, since they did have that one. Mirage III with an English cockpit may be a decent stand-in, too.

[Gunfreak]

If this is the map.  The part I've coloured in,will give us the most jungle/rainforest in DCS to day. Until we get a proper jungle map/Vietnam/south east Asia. This will probably be the best stand in for WW2 Pacific jungle stuff and Vientam.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Gunfreak

[bies]

Australia map is OK, guys write about prefering Cold War Fulda Gap, Vietnam or 1950 Korea, but some people forget about one basic thing bashing Australia map:

It's not ED who is using its resurces to make Australia map, but Australian 3rd party which WANT to make this map, because they are from Australia and ED just allows them an access to DCS enviromet. I guess even if this map would sell mostly in Australia they are ok with that. Let them have fun. No matter if someone is going to buy this particular map or not - it doesn't hurt anyone.

Edited August 27, 2022 by bies

[Gunfreak]

5 minutes ago, bies said:

Australia map is OK, I would obviously prefer Cold War Fulda Gap, Vietnam or 1950 Korea, but some people forget about one basic thing bashing Australia map:

It's not ED who is using its resurces to make Australia map, but Australian 3rd party which WANT to make this map, because they are from Australia and ED only allows them an access to DCS enviromet. I guess even if this map would sell mostly in Australia they are ok with that. Let them have fun.

I have no personal problem with an Australia map. Might even buy it. But ED knows it will get these kinda reactions when a map like that gets announced. ED could stop all that complaining by just saying straight out we are working on a Vietnam/South east Asia map. Even if they say it will be after Vulcan/multicore implementation. 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Gunfreak

[ggrewe]

What excites me the most is that there have been 3 new maps announced in the last month, which bodes very well for the future.

It seems ED are expanding this part of the sim significantly & hopefully will start plugging those glaring gaps like Vietnam - especially with the announcement of specific era aircraft like the F-100.

As for the North Australia map, I'm sure our Aussie brethren are happy to have a bit of their back yard represented.

Minsky makes a great point in adding East Timor, even if this is added later when the Developers have the capability / capacity (like Cypress added to Syria Map).

This would help the developers learning curve & add to the selling features of the map, as East Timor could standing in as Jungle for Vietnam, until we get the actual map and as an opposition base for Red/Blue scenarios vs Australia.

Where developers have made adjustments previously based on community feedback (RAZBAM adding Continental South America to Falklands map) this has been very positively received

10 hours ago, Minsky said:

I truly wish the team all the best with their debut, but this is how I see this map:

Also, as stated by many, adding a WWII era layer would get maximum mileage out of the map, as that would represent real-world conflict (like is been done with Marianas map)

 

[MAXsenna]

9 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

ED could stop all that complaining by just saying straight out we are working on a Vietnam/South east Asia map.

As far as I'm concerned, they just did. Maybe not in so many words, but we knew it was coming later rather that sooner anyway.  

Actually I was pretty sure when I heard about "testing new tech" and saw the palm trees in The Marianas.  

[Razorback]

Besides the lack of historical interest that this map represents, I am especially worried about the graphic quality of the realisation.
And this is a bit the case for all the maps announced lately.

We had the Syrian map which is for me the most beautiful map of DCS. This was followed by the Marianas map which is a magnificent achievement and a standard of modelling that is expected for new productions.

These two maps are a real pleasure to fly in helicopters. And it is fair to say that in recent years helicopters have been well developed by ED following the arrival of the Hind and Apache. Others like BSIII, BO-105, who knows OH-58 (one can always dream) should follow. But to enjoy flying helicopters, you need good terrain modelling, which is currently only available on the Syria, Marianas and to a lesser extent in the Caucasus map.

The recent release of the South Atlantic map by Razbam is clearly inferior in terms of terrain quality. To give you an idea, I fly in a virtual 100% helicopter unit and out of our 20 pilots, only one bought the map (out of curiosity). In view of the quality of the terrain at low altitude, none of us wanted to make this purchase.

So if I have a wish to express here towards ED, apart from the discussion on the fact of modelling an X or Y map, it is above all to be able to have a quality product at least equivalent to the standard of the Syria or Marianas map.
We are in 2022, very quickly in 2023 and we expect an even better quality compared to the past achievements...but currently when we see the map of Razbam we can have serious doubts.
DCS is not only planes flying at 9,000ft, it is also helicopters doing tactical flight (NOE) and the quality of the environment is therefore a primordial thing to have a maximum immersion. Thank you for thinking of us...
We are obviously impatient to discover the next screenshots and if the interest for the Australian map is to be relativized, it would obviously be a very nice surprise to see a very high quality ground modeling.

[Gunfreak]

56 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

As far as I'm concerned, they just did. Maybe not in so many words, but we knew it was coming later rather that sooner anyway.  

Actually I was pretty sure when I heard about "testing new tech" and saw the palm trees in The Marianas.  

Some vauge hint on a forum (that only 5-10% players frequent) and that at best 30% of those again actually picks up on. Isn't good enough. It needs to be stated clearly and publicly om Facebook _forum and news letters. 

1. Yes Vietnam/similar map is being worked on.

2. it will not be released until optimisation is implemented (or whatever else they are waiting for.)

It won't stop all the Vietnam bitching.  But most of it.

[Peq]

IMHO is not fair to compare ED and Ugra latest maps with new third parties. The former had years of experience in map making. Normandy or old Caucasus are not in the same league as Syria, Marianas or the Channel.

New third parties will get there eventually. They need time, practice, and our support.

[MAXsenna]

6 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Some vauge hint on a forum (that only 5-10% players frequent) and that at best 30% of those again actually picks up on. Isn't good enough. It needs to be stated clearly and publicly om Facebook _forum and news letters. 

1. Yes Vietnam/similar map is being worked on.

2. it will not be released until optimisation is implemented (or whatever else they are waiting for.)

It won't stop all the Vietnam bitching.  But most of it.

If you read that as vague I can't help you.

1. We already know they are in some way or another.  

2. Probably won't come before "a new engine" is released. Spherical and better optimisation as you say, for larger maps. The big picture might be the whole planet that's been hinted about. 

3. No it won't, and you know it. It will just change to "gimmie already!  

Skål, det er lørdag!  

[DishDoggie]

Crikey

 

 

lol sorry

Edited August 28, 2022 by DishDoggie

[hanab]

14 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

I believe you're right! 

This past five weeks:

Friday July 29th, Kola

Friday August 5th, Kfir

Friday August 12th, Sinai

Friday August 19th, Super Sabre

Friday August 26th, Northern Australia 

So it seems, every two weeks we'll get a module announced, and every two weeks we get a map announced. 

So what module will be announced next Friday do you guys think, and what map in two weeks?  

 

Perhaps they will annonce that they have finish a module ? We are waiting that for hornet and viper since many years. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by hanab

[Germane]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Peq:

IMHO is not fair to compare ED and Ugra latest maps with new third parties. The former had years of experience in map making. Normandy or old Caucasus are not in the same league as Syria, Marianas or the Channel.

New third parties will get there eventually. They need time, practice, and our support.

I see it differently. I have nothing against an Australia map and do not necessarily need the context of a conflict. I also like pure "sight seeing" maps to fly around and I m happy about this announcement.  BUT for me the quality of the product is crucial. I don't care if it's the first map of the developers or the 10th. If the quality meets my expectations then I buy it - if not then not.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Germane

[Rosebud47]

The accuracy of the  maps we got is astonishing and do reflect the quality of the aircraft modules, generally speaking.

So, if the maps are not based on google maps or bing maps, but hand made, it´s quite understandable, that a map developer would have a local connection to the area recreated for DCS to provide the accuracy. While Vietnam and Korea surely are nice countries to visit, it seems not to be such easy to have this local connection, unless you´re born there, to recreate the look of these parts in the world and an accurate recreation of the airfields, landmarks, etc. In addition a local access to North Korea to investigate the airfields/ military bases won´t be such easy, unless Kim would be a passionated DCS pilot. 

Speaking of the parts in the world, I would like to know, if ED ( @NineLine ) has got an ideological plan for the goal to recreate the whole world and not just a financial goal?

Asking this, is really not meant to provoke other than an answer to it. An ideological sense of a whole world in DCS only would make practical sense, if everyone would have the same practical access to the idea of the whole world.

   

[Dragon1-1]

17 minutes ago, Rosebud47 said:

In addition a local access to North Korea to investigate the airfields/ military bases won´t be such easy, unless Kim would be a passionated DCS pilot.    

A bigger problem is that none of the airfields, in the North or the South, look anything like they did in 1950s. We (aside maybe from those coming over from the other sim) don't just want a Korean map, we want Korea, which is to say, the place as it was during Korean War. A modern Korea does have some appeal, and it is a possible flashpoint, to be sure, but when people talk about Korea, I think most of them mean a map for the F-86 and MiG-15, with infrastructure having more in common with WWII maps than with anything modern. It would be best to have two versions of the map, like with Marianas, but that might not be feasible, given its size. 

Also, Korea would be a vegetation heavy map (it's not jungle for most part, but it is heavily forested). This means performance trouble of the sort we're already seeing on Marianas, except worse.

[Rosebud47]

For sure a Korea map in DCS would be meant for the Korea conflict...

I´m mostly looking forward for the Kola map, as it should give an impression of the icy look of the northern hemisphere in variation to the desert maps and its looks we already got.

Far east subtropical countries look very different overall, like heavy rain changes quickly to bright sunshine, lighting and colors. Movies do not reflect the real thing ( "Full Metal Jacket" was shot in England ). I would think, best to be there, to get accurate impressions for a map recreation.

  

[Nodak]

More parties building maps, faster and better the tech evolves, the greater the likely hood you see your own highly sought maps within your limited life time.  History can never play out quite right in a game, so it should always be a secondary goal to more important things like quality and play ability.  Give me a beautiful solid map and I'll be happy to make my own history instead of burning massive amounts of time and energy trying to duplicate something that can never really be again. 

[Beirut]

I'll probably buy it just so I don't have to change my sig, but it does seem to be a strange choice. 

 

Maybe it's a tech demo or something.